We publish here the chat log from our second "Ask The Joomla Team" Session.

Next Session will be happen on 5th May 2010 20 UTC with Louis Landry and Andrew Eddie.

How Can You Join Ask the Joomla Team

You can meet us in the #joomla-ask-the-team chat room on irc.freenode.net

One very easy way to join is to visit this link: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#joomla-ask-the-team

Chat log

• jasonhando

  hello

• daniib

  Hello

• elinw

  hi

• daniib

  Hi

  how are you?

• elinw

  good

• jasonhando

  this is my first meet the team

• elinw

  welcome1

• daniib

  mine too!

• jasonhando

  hope it isn't over my head

• elinw

  cool

  where are you from?

• jasonhando

  i feel like i have gone back to days at uni using unix with this irc

• elinw

  yeah

• jasonhando

  I am from Sydney

• elinw

  great

  how about you ?

• jasonhando

  from?

• elinw

  New york

• jasonhando

  where u from ?

• elinw

  uh oh is coming

• daniib

  Sydney too

• Trouble

  Ho ho

• louislandry

   

• jasonhando

  ny is my favourite city... after sydney of course

• elinw

   

  beautiful morning here

• jasonhando

  nice night here

• louislandry

  It is too early to be beautiful

• elinw

  lol sleepy head

• Andy[0]

  i'll be back in 20-30mins, will check logs later

• elinw

  wave to andy

• rvsjoen

  eat fast

  g'day peoples

• daniib

  Hi

• elinw

  see louis predicted we get Europe at this time

  but apparently it's Australia

• louislandry

  OK, off the top... its easier for everyone involved if we do one question at a time

• elinw

  Ok so i guess it's the witching hour

  yeah

• louislandry

  so please if you can manage it ... (and even if you cannot) let's try to do that

• elinw

  Any other advice?

• louislandry

  Who has the first question?

  Let's get this party started

• jasonhando

  raise hand

• elinw

  +++

• louislandry

  fire away

• jasonhando

  ok

  so

  will there be diff in 1.6 templating?

• elinw

  ha, code

• jasonhando

  like there was bw 1.0 and 1.5?

• elinw

  not as big

• louislandry

  There are two main things different between 1.0 and 1.5 with templates

• elinw

  there are some differences but i've been working on keepin milkyway functional and t isn't that bad

  kepp oing

• louislandry

  1) We have added the notion of template styles. This won't affect how you build templates, but it will give your users more power to create multiple "configurations" or styles of each template.

• elinw

  styles are fantastic

• jasonhando

  sounds interestg

• elinw

  in 1.5 you couldn't change the styles on your defualt template without copying

• louislandry

  2) The core layouts are changing their markup to be more semantic and concise.

  1 won't affect how you make templates really

• elinw

  the paramter settings

• louislandry

  2 might

• elinw

  yes

• louislandry

  because it will affect the CSS selectors that are available and used by default for elements on the page

• elinw

  in 1.6 .. say with milkkyway ... you can use red and blue

  yes

• JoomlaWorks

  Hello folks

• elinw

  we will try to make a mapping

• nikosdion

  Louis, will template styles be assignable per menu item, unlike what's possible w/ Joomla! 1.5 templates?

• louislandry

  beyond that, its pretty much the same

• elinw

  yes

  we already have that in sample data

• jasonhando

  thnx for answer to my question

• louislandry

  yes

• elinw

  ok another question ...

• JoomlaWorks

  What is this discussion supposed to cover? (so we stay on topic)

• louislandry

  Joomla

• elinw

  whatever people ask

  ok yeah

• JoomlaWorks

  ok

• elinw

  no physics

• louislandry

  Though the main thing is ... let's keep it one question at a time

  so its easy to follow

• AndrewEddie

  I can do physics

• bill_

  joomla 1.6 release date?

• louislandry

  ya i don't have a big problem with physics

• elinw

  well it's off topic though

• JoomlaWorks

  Joomla everything or 1.5 or 1.6 in particular?

• louislandry

  ah, fair point

• elinw

  bil_ did you see andrew's email?

• elinw

  where they announced eature freeze may 5

• JoomlaWorks

  Johan, come on, decide on a nickname dude

• louislandry

  We do not have a 1.6 release date yet.

• elinw

  iti's software

• johanjanssens

  lost his password

• elinw

  so one step at a time

  let's get beta out

• nikosdion

  Will there be a big enough beta period for 1.6 so that 3PD can adapt their software?

• rvsjoen

  not even a rough estimation, as in 'this year' ?

• elinw

  oh yeah

  heh johan

• JoomlaWorks

  @johan

• bill_

  will comments be in beta release

• elinw

  maybe andrew should answer that one?

• louislandry

  why?

• AndrewEddie

  I'm not on duty

• elinw

  he's been working really hard and you can see in the omments branch

  well just saying

  you want to answer?

• louislandry

  Comments will make it into the beta release if we can get it done, complete and working by the feature branch freeze date

  which is 5 May 2010

  soon.

  if it isn't, then it will not make the beta

• elinw

  or at least beta1

  if you are following the comments branch

• louislandry

  no, if it isn't done then it won't be in 1.6

  how's that for clarity

• elinw

  which ... i really think th branchs are where the actioh is

• louislandry

  we are pretty confident it will be done though

• elinw

   

  it's a pretty huge undertaking

• bill_

  how can we all help with bug testing after release

• |ironman|

  away At work.

• elinw

  ok i can talk about jbs

• louislandry

  ok

• elinw

  so after beta and we switch to bugs

  jbs is the place to be if you want to help

  of course, anyone can hit the tracker and report issues or put in patches

• K2Joom

  Hi Team

• elinw

  and you can join the jbs mailing list

  so ... the way the process works in bug testing is that we have :

  reporting

  confirming

  fixing

  testing

  and anyone can help at any point in thre

• JoomlaWorks

  How long does the team officially plan to support 1.5 in case 1.6 is rolled out in 2010 or early 2011?

  it's important

• bill_

  few templates have been included in the nighty so will any more mahe the beta version

• JoomlaWorks

  because if it's supported for some time

  there are little things here and there that we can fix in 1.5

• elinw

  hang on ... i s that nough about helping with bugs?

• elinw

  ?

• elinw

  ok, louis you want to take 1.5 support?

• louislandry

  Our plan is to support 1.5 for one year after the GA release of 1.6

• snellcode

  : whats the url to get started with jbs?

• JoomlaWorks

  @louis So there is room for small additions and changes in 1.5, right?

• elinw

  ok either the tracker or the mailing list,

• jools

  Title: Joomla! bug Squad | Google Groups (at groups.google.com)

• JoomlaWorks

  @louis I'm not talking changes like new features, but enhancements, e.g. Menu Manager ordering in the backend, cache improvements, better CDN support etc.

• elinw

  hop in there and we'll get you started

• bill_

  example templates 1.6?

• louislandry

  That would be generally up to the JBS, as while it is in maintenance mode they make decisions about what gets committed to the code base. My suggestion would be if you have suggestions etc for improvement you hop in the JBS channel or join their mailing list and go from ther.

• elinw

  yes beez2 is not win trunk

  now

  now intrunk

• louislandry

  I personally don't have an issue with that sort of stuff though

• elinw

  well jbs tends to be conservatice

  oh i forgot to say too about bugs

  that helpingwith test ocverage is huge

• MichaelC

  nothing wrong with a conservative jbs

• elinw

  if you have that skill set, either functional or unit that will really help

  ya

• _Klas

  conservative..just not in 1.6.16 case

• elinw

  we have millions of funcitoning sites

• elinw

  unit tests will help us catch things like php 4 compatibility

• K2Joom

  Will all modules, templates etc have to be coded for 1.6, sry late to the party

• elinw

  which thank goodness we don't need for 1.6

• hils

  hello so JBS also covers enhancement decisions and not just bugs?

• elinw

  no

  well you know one persons bug is another person's feature

• louislandry

  JBS covers any code base that is in maintenance mode

• elinw

  that's the nature of software

• louislandry

  as of right now, that is 1.5.x

  OK, next question

• elinw

  so ... louis, if something is coded joomla style for 1.5 ... for 1.6

  they need to incorporate ACL

  and if you're using sections you need to cope with that

  what else?

  personally i think you'll want to switch to jform but you won't have to

• nikosdion

  If I might, this also includes other APIs, like component parameters. We need to know if they're going to change.

• louislandry

  I don't know off the top of my head, I suspect that is something we will be discovering in the short term

• bill_

  any k2 features planned for future releases

• elinw

  it would be great if some people would start testing that and helpingto document

• K2Joom

  will 1.6 be incorporating any of the current extensions that are available on the market, to make core more stable, secure, functionally better? such as k2

• nikosdion

  @ We could test that, but we need some rough guidance as to the changes made

• elinw

  yeah i get it

• AndrewEddie

  XML installer files will need to change to as a minimum

• elinw

  yes

• nikosdion

  @Andrew So much I've figured, but is there any list of changes, or I just have to go through the code while bug fixing my extensions?

• elinw

  one thing they did with 1.6 is make the core extensions really complete, so they have manifests etc

• K2Joom

  is always ready to help test for joomla

• elinw

  +++

• louislandry

  There are a handful of things that have changed, but it isn't drastic. I suggest you checkout a copy of trunk and see.

• AndrewEddie

  : not ready, but I expect by Beta2 we'll have one

• elinw

  i think there is a lot of great work you can take advantage of but you don't have to

• nikosdion

  Louis, Andrew, thanks! So far I'm checking out the trunk on a weekly basis.

• louislandry

  What was the next question?

• jennifermarriott

  There are two questions regarding K2

• louislandry

  Oh... the "k2 features"

• louislandry

  We don't have specific plans to mimic any features of K2, but that doesn't mean that features K2 offers won't end up in the core. I expect there will absolutely be some overlap into the future.

• bill_

  any chance of a 1,6 structure diagram like eddie has for 1.5

• louislandry

  If fotis wanted to work on a branch getting some features merged into the core he can certainly do that, and we can look at merging that down to trunk when its complete, and working.

  Same is true of anyone

• elinw

  Anyone can ask for a branch

  @ If someone makes it

• louislandry

  In fact, IIRC Fotis was given one with Amy and Stian some months ago

• Andy[0]

  is acccesibility intentionally low on admin control on 1.6?

• elinw

  Hopefully Andy tarr's template gets in

  Andy it's not intentional obviously

• louislandry

  lol

• elinw

  the focus was on th front end layouts

• Andy[0]

  i.e. link title tags, access keys, article title meta control all seem to be missing?

• louislandry

  I'd use the word incomplete

• elinw

  good

• louislandry

  not "intentionally low"

• Andy[0]

  what I meant was, has it been taken out of dev on a vote? or is it just missed?

• elinw

  no just missed as of now

  but if someone wants to work on it, i'm sure that's welcome

• louislandry

  absolutely

• Andy[0]

  I currently have to patch Joomla everytime I build as we run a lot of AAA standard websites

• elinw

  andrea has done great works

• Andy[0]

  the code already exists for 1.5

• Andy[0]

  Just isn't in core

• louislandry

  Next time you do that, why not submit that patch to the issue tracker

• elinw

  Andy can you put code in the tracker?

• jennifermarriott

  that would be nice to put on the 1.5 tracker Andy as something for people to test

• elinw

  yes

• louislandry

  so hopefully you don't have to keep doing it

• Andy[0]

  That would be really nice

  It is one of the baines of using Joomla

• elinw

  accessibility is a core value but we haven't done enough ... but i think 1.6 actually is a real advance

• louislandry

  OK, next question?

• elinw

  th front is really well thought out that way and Angie has been on top of it

• elinw

  And Andrea's template, reallly powerful

• Andy[0]

  if I hand out my patch for 1.5, any of you have time to convert to 1.6? I'm about to move this weekend so will not have internet for ~2 weeks

• elinw

  we'll try

• K2Joom

  I hate to compare against Wordpress, but backend functionality could learn some lessons from them.

• nikosdion

  Louis, will Administrators still be able to install extensions in 1.6.? If so, can we use ACL to prevent them from doing so? (The ACL stuff in 1.6 is still a bit mystifying for me)

• bill_

  anyone working on milkway

• elinw

  yes you can

• Andy[0]

  : including custom fields, and template assignment on an article basis?

• elinw

  in what sense?

• louislandry

  @all ... one at a time please

• elinw

   

• louislandry

  otherwise it gets difficult for everyone to follow

• louislandry

  : do what you can, when you can.

  : Yes, you will be able to choose which user groups have the ability to install extensions in 1.6

• bill_

  milkway has not been changed much for 1.6

• nikosdion

  Perfect

• elinw

  it hasn't needed much

  i updated it to use the same positions as the new templates

  and it's had someo ther work in the xml etc

• hils

  will Update Manager or equivalent be available in 1.6?

• elinw

  but the goal is just to keep it funcitoning as it is in 1.5

• louislandry

  the purpose of milkyway in 1.6 is to be the "legacy" template with layout overrides that as closely match the 1.5 markup as possible

• Little^John

  Regarding ACL .. Will 1.6 force some kinds of standards for ext., so ACL can be used throughout all components? (thinking of backend only)

• louislandry

  1.6 will have an ability to update extensions out of the box.

• hils

  excellent

• louislandry

  There really isn't a way to "force" coding standards for extensions, but the ACL stuff is systemic, and it most certainly can be used throughout all extensions.

• elinw

  i think it needs to be, isn't that right?

• Andy[0]

  Has joomla 1.6 got rid of the ominous position names, user1/2/3 ?

• elinw

  you at least need those lines, which aren't much

  yes

• elinw

  well remember position names come from templates

• Andy[0]

  Yes, but are the default build tempaltes "setting the trend" ?

• elinw

  so after a lot of discussion what we did in the smaple data

  is to use totally generic names i.e. positin-1 position-2 etc

• parthlawate

  Hi All .. hope i am not too late.. joining from a train

• elinw

  i think we have 12

  because the people doing templates wanted more more more positions

  which you can see in beez2

• bill_

  is anyone else contributing templates to 1.6 release

• Andy[0]

  I wanted to, but I was told I am too late

• louislandry

  So far the only one in a branch was beez2

  and it was merged down into trunk (partially) earlier in the week.

• elinw

  well and atomic but that's not for production

  yes

  if you install it's used in the parks sample site

• Andy[0]

  I wanted to get my desktop template as an alternative admin template into 1.6 build, it's in a branch atm

• louislandry

  If other templates are added to branches before the 5 May 2010 cutoff then they will certainly be considered for 1.6

  Ah, I was talking about frontend templates, sorry

• Andy[0]

  ah, ok.

• elinw

  it's always a tradeoff between weiight of the package and the desire to add stuff

• Andy[0]

  Yeah I've tried to get Joomla team to create a "lightweight" package as well

• elinw

  with this template project for JSOP

• Andy[0]

  one that has only minimum core (no additional components)

• Little^John

  Will there be an Alpha 3 or Beta 1 soon?

• Andy[0]

  and the code is compressed

• elinw

  I at least am hoping that we will get a bunch of great templates easily installable

• louislandry

  We will not do an alpha3 ... and we do expect a beta1 soon

• elinw

  and we can put a link to that site right in the backcend

• Andy[0]

  I know this is for 1.6, but is there an area for talks on 1.7 yet (i.e. a google group, or in the forums?)

• m4co

  so If I want to donate a template admin for J 1.6, all I have to do is create a branch ?

• louislandry

  I see no reason why we can't talk about 1.7 on the mailing lists

• elinw

  no promises on anything

• m4co

  I'm not asking for promisses, maybe I should rephrase it

• elinw

  Andy there has been some 1.7 talk already on list

  one week to feature freeze

• Andy[0]

  : I was told admin templates will not be added

• m4co

  ah what a pitty

• Andy[0]

  told me that about my template atleast, and I believe to adminpraise as well

• elinw

  well if hathor, the accessible template, is beta ready it will go in i think

• m4co

  : you're the one who did that jquery admin template, right ?

• Andy[0]

  yeah

• m4co

  very nice work

• Andy[0]

  it now works perfectly with mootools

  so no compat issues

  1.5 version is almost exiting beta

• elinw

  but look, the beauty of joomla is it take 3 minutes to download and install a template

• Andy[0]

  and 1.6 is at beta 0.2

• m4co

  : who provided hathor ?

  I'm working on a accessible template called Minima, I shared on the list before

• elinw

  that's the andrea tarr fsoc projcet

• louislandry

  Generally speaking yes that is it. If there are any improvements that anyone wants to make, the same thing holds true whether it is a template or an extension or improvements to the existing functionality... then you just need to make sure it is complete, working and up to date and we can consider it.

• elinw

  why put up a link to it the other day on list

• Andy[0]

  : this why I suggested a download mechanism like this:

• jools

  Title: jQuery UI - Configure your download (at jqueryui.com)

• hils

  if links to front end templates will be available in admin then links to admin templates could be available too?

• Andy[0]

  for Joomla, so there is a maximum/minimum build size

• m4co

  : and the last day for that is May 5th when there will be the branch freeze ?

• louislandry

  for 1.6 yes

  but you can still work on things like that in branches

  and as soon as 1.6 is released GA

  we will start looking at merging for 1.7

• rvsjoen

  does the branch freeze imply a transition to beta ?

• louislandry

  yes

• elinw

  yes

• louislandry

  its a first step

• Andy[0]

  Can i get my 1.6 folder in my branch moved over to the 1.6 branch?

• rvsjoen

  nice

• louislandry

  I don't know what that means

• elinw

  Sam could probably help with that

• Sander

  Will Joomla 1.6 also have ACL for the content of the media manager? (I don't mean the access to the media manager itself but for the files and folders in the media manager)

• louislandry

  no.

• elinw

  no

• bill_

  why strange chars in new forms

• elinw

  the only thing that granular is articles as far as i know

• rvsjoen

  speaking of media manager, does the 1.6 media manager pack the same media manager as 1.5 or has there been development on that end as well

• luscarpa

  Hi all, I'm Luca form Italy, I have a question about Mootools, today Mootools Team has released 1.3 beta1, I know that is a beta, but probably we have a stable release with stable version of j1.6, there is a plan to integrate and test it?

• m4co

  : good question +

• Sander

  that's a pity, feature plans on this?

• louislandry

  We will certainly be looking at and workign with the mootools team to get the latest version (1.3) into 1.6

• elinw

  3pds can exppose it

• Andy[0]

  On a similiar subject, can we get a copy of jquery & jqueryUI into the JS lib in core?

• louislandry

  I'll probably be talking with aaron and valerio in the next couple of days about it

• elinw

  and work oni implementng

• louislandry

  : no, probably not.

• elinw

  ok so can we do one question at a time

• Andy[0]

  sorry, I'll wait.

• luscarpa

  this is a good news

• elinw

  about the acl ... louis correct me if i'm wrong please, but can't 3pds work wit hthe api to extend it to more granualar

• m4co

  off I go, thanks and for the answers. bye everyone

• louislandry

  The 1.6 media manager is very very similar to the 1.5 one. No one found it interesting enough or important enough to really work on it evidently.

• m4co

  : will check your template later

• nikosdion

  Will a (far) future version of Joomla! support storing files uploaded to the Media Manager in a CDN, e.g. Amazon CloudFront?

• louislandry

  There is no way to extend the ACL system to work with files managed by the media manager because they are not currently tracked in the database as far as i know.

• elinw

  true

  but in other components

• louislandry

  : if someone builds it, maybe

  Look its important to remember that all of the questions about what "might" be in future versions of joomla depend greatly on what people like you and me decide they want to work on.

• Andy[0]

  : Is there a reason why not? (re:jquery/jqueryUI) It would mean people are not tied down to 1 JS library, I have proven mootools and jquery can work alongside each other in harmony

• nikosdion

  Lousi, thanks. It's something I was considering for the near future, I wanted to make sure it's not something already in progress.

• Little^John

  , some components does this. Eg. Jomsocial has options for Amazon.. (its not the same, I know, but related)

• nikosdion

  I know

• louislandry

  I'd love to see work done on the media manager... it needs lots of love ... so if you are intersted please jump into a branch and make some magic

• elinw

  i think a number of peopl have implemented amazon solutions

  yes

  but no one in a branch

• nikosdion

  Louis, will do, once I get the hang of 1.6's code.

• bill_

  how do i arrange for a branch

• louislandry

  : The principle reasons why not is that we don't use jquery in the core. We have no plans for using jquery in the core. And it really isn't necessary to ship with the core.

• jlleblanc

  media manager could use a *lot* of love and magic

• elinw

  it doesn't have to be one person working on it

• louislandry

  : send an email requesting it to the CMS mailing list and Sam or I will follow up

• jlleblanc

  : maybe we can work together on it

• elinw

  a group could decide to take it up

• nikosdion

  Joseph, agree. Will catch up with you later on that

• elinw

  +++ joe

  and

• jlleblanc

  I'd really like to see something more reusable across components. Always have people wanting images in 3PD components

• elinw

  ha, i'm pushing being compuliive on that

• louislandry

  Ya there is a mountain of stuff i'd like to see it do

• elinw

  compulsive

  and also on strings for consisent ui

• MichaelC

  : it would be great to give a choice between jQuery and Mootools. It may not be possible, but I use jQuery for everything and then need to use a sledgehammer to force it into Joomla (which sucks)

• jlleblanc

  thinks "great, what did I just sign up for"

• elinw

   

  evil grin

• nikosdion

  thinks the same, but that's what makes this worth it

• louislandry

  : I suggest you work with a team on a jQuery plugin that can be used to achieve waht you want.

  Every time the debate opens

• jlleblanc

  : I prefer jQuery as well, but I support the decision to stick with MooTools.

• louislandry

  someone says they are going to work with it

  or on it

  and it hasn't come to fruition yet

• bill_

  thanks for info and allhard work that core developers are doing

• elinw

  if you have the itch, scratch it

• louislandry

  So take that energy and desire, and get with some people who have it too... and make it happen

• jlleblanc

  ++

• louislandry

  I'm sure the greater community would be appreciative

• jlleblanc

  I think if all of the 3PDs wanting to use jQuery can come together and agree on a standard plugin, method, etc... for incorporating jQuery, we can find a way of incorporating it more easily in Joomla

  right now, everyone kind of does their own thing when it comes to jQuery and Joomla.

• elinw

  you know with the student program in talking about it we really came to a focus on teams

  having groupw work together

• nikosdion

  The hardest part is getting together. Other than that, we'd all agree to extend JHTML to load jQuery just like it does for mooTools, I think.

• elinw

  it's really a good thing

• louislandry

  OK all... my time is up... have some things i need to get done this morning so I will leave it here. Thanks!

• elinw

  thanks, this was fun

• nikosdion

  Thank you both

• MichaelC

  thanks guys!

• hils

  thank you

• jlleblanc

  thanks everyone

• Andy[0]

  thanks for your time guys