We publish here the chat log from our second "Ask The Joomla Team" Session.

Next Session will be happen on 5th May 2010 20 UTC with Louis Landry and Andrew Eddie.

How Can You Join Ask the Joomla Team

You can meet us in the #joomla-ask-the-team chat room on irc.freenode.net

One very easy way to join is to visit this link: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#joomla-ask-the-team

Chat log

  • jasonhando

    hello

  • daniib

    Hello

  • elinw

    hi

  • daniib

    Hi

    how are you?

  • elinw

    good

  • jasonhando

    this is my first meet the team

  • elinw

    welcome1

  • daniib

    mine too!

  • jasonhando

    hope it isn't over my head

  • elinw

    cool

    where are you from?

  • jasonhando

    i feel like i have gone back to days at uni using unix with this irc

  • elinw

    yeah

  • jasonhando

    I am from Sydney

  • elinw

    great

    how about you ?

  • jasonhando

    from?

  • elinw

    New york

  • jasonhando

    where u from ?

  • elinw

    uh oh is coming

  • daniib

    Sydney too

  • Trouble

    Ho ho

  • louislandry

     

  • jasonhando

    ny is my favourite city... after sydney of course

  • elinw

     

    beautiful morning here

  • jasonhando

    nice night here

  • louislandry

    It is too early to be beautiful

  • elinw

    lol sleepy head

  • Andy[0]

    i'll be back in 20-30mins, will check logs later

  • elinw

    wave to andy

  • rvsjoen

    eat fast

    g'day peoples

  • daniib

    Hi

  • elinw

    see louis predicted we get Europe at this time

    but apparently it's Australia

  • louislandry

    OK, off the top... its easier for everyone involved if we do one question at a time

  • elinw

    Ok so i guess it's the witching hour

    yeah

  • louislandry

    so please if you can manage it ... (and even if you cannot) let's try to do that

  • elinw

    Any other advice?

  • louislandry

    Who has the first question?

    Let's get this party started

  • jasonhando

    raise hand

  • elinw

    +++

  • louislandry

    fire away

  • jasonhando

    ok

    so

    will there be diff in 1.6 templating?

  • elinw

    ha, code

  • jasonhando

    like there was bw 1.0 and 1.5?

  • elinw

    not as big

  • louislandry

    There are two main things different between 1.0 and 1.5 with templates

  • elinw

    there are some differences but i've been working on keepin milkyway functional and t isn't that bad

    kepp oing

  • louislandry

    1) We have added the notion of template styles. This won't affect how you build templates, but it will give your users more power to create multiple "configurations" or styles of each template.

  • elinw

    styles are fantastic

  • jasonhando

    sounds interestg

  • elinw

    in 1.5 you couldn't change the styles on your defualt template without copying

  • louislandry

    2) The core layouts are changing their markup to be more semantic and concise.

    1 won't affect how you make templates really

  • elinw

    the paramter settings

  • louislandry

    2 might

  • elinw

    yes

  • louislandry

    because it will affect the CSS selectors that are available and used by default for elements on the page

  • elinw

    in 1.6 .. say with milkkyway ... you can use red and blue

    yes

  • JoomlaWorks

    Hello folks

  • elinw

    we will try to make a mapping

  • nikosdion

    Louis, will template styles be assignable per menu item, unlike what's possible w/ Joomla! 1.5 templates?

  • louislandry

    beyond that, its pretty much the same

  • elinw

    yes

    we already have that in sample data

  • jasonhando

    thnx for answer to my question

  • louislandry

    yes

  • elinw

    ok another question ...

  • JoomlaWorks

    What is this discussion supposed to cover? (so we stay on topic)

  • louislandry

    Joomla

  • elinw

    whatever people ask

    ok yeah

  • JoomlaWorks

    ok

  • elinw

    no physics

  • louislandry

    Though the main thing is ... let's keep it one question at a time

    so its easy to follow

  • AndrewEddie

    I can do physics

  • bill_

    joomla 1.6 release date?

  • louislandry

    ya i don't have a big problem with physics

  • elinw

    well it's off topic though

  • JoomlaWorks

    Joomla everything or 1.5 or 1.6 in particular?

  • louislandry

    ah, fair point

  • elinw

    bil_ did you see andrew's email?

  • elinw

    where they announced eature freeze may 5

  • JoomlaWorks

    Johan, come on, decide on a nickname dude

  • louislandry

    We do not have a 1.6 release date yet.

  • elinw

    iti's software

  • johanjanssens

    lost his password

  • elinw

    so one step at a time

    let's get beta out

  • nikosdion

    Will there be a big enough beta period for 1.6 so that 3PD can adapt their software?

  • rvsjoen

    not even a rough estimation, as in 'this year' ?

  • elinw

    oh yeah

    heh johan

  • JoomlaWorks

    @johan

  • bill_

    will comments be in beta release

  • elinw

    maybe andrew should answer that one?

  • louislandry

    why?

  • AndrewEddie

    I'm not on duty

  • elinw

    he's been working really hard and you can see in the omments branch

    well just saying

    you want to answer?

  • louislandry

    Comments will make it into the beta release if we can get it done, complete and working by the feature branch freeze date

    which is 5 May 2010

    soon.

    if it isn't, then it will not make the beta

  • elinw

    or at least beta1

    if you are following the comments branch

  • louislandry

    no, if it isn't done then it won't be in 1.6

    how's that for clarity

  • elinw

    which ... i really think th branchs are where the actioh is

  • louislandry

    we are pretty confident it will be done though

  • elinw

     

    it's a pretty huge undertaking

  • bill_

    how can we all help with bug testing after release

  • |ironman|

    away At work.

  • elinw

    ok i can talk about jbs

  • louislandry

    ok

  • elinw

    so after beta and we switch to bugs

    jbs is the place to be if you want to help

    of course, anyone can hit the tracker and report issues or put in patches

  • K2Joom

    Hi Team

  • elinw

    and you can join the jbs mailing list

    so ... the way the process works in bug testing is that we have :

    reporting

    confirming

    fixing

    testing

    and anyone can help at any point in thre

  • JoomlaWorks

    How long does the team officially plan to support 1.5 in case 1.6 is rolled out in 2010 or early 2011?

    it's important

  • bill_

    few templates have been included in the nighty so will any more mahe the beta version

  • JoomlaWorks

    because if it's supported for some time

    there are little things here and there that we can fix in 1.5

  • elinw

    hang on ... i s that nough about helping with bugs?

  • elinw

    ?

  • elinw

    ok, louis you want to take 1.5 support?

  • louislandry

    Our plan is to support 1.5 for one year after the GA release of 1.6

  • snellcode

    : whats the url to get started with jbs?

  • JoomlaWorks

    @louis So there is room for small additions and changes in 1.5, right?

  • elinw

    ok either the tracker or the mailing list,

  • jools

    Title: Joomla! bug Squad | Google Groups (at groups.google.com)

  • JoomlaWorks

    @louis I'm not talking changes like new features, but enhancements, e.g. Menu Manager ordering in the backend, cache improvements, better CDN support etc.

  • elinw

    hop in there and we'll get you started

  • bill_

    example templates 1.6?

  • louislandry

    That would be generally up to the JBS, as while it is in maintenance mode they make decisions about what gets committed to the code base. My suggestion would be if you have suggestions etc for improvement you hop in the JBS channel or join their mailing list and go from ther.

  • elinw

    yes beez2 is not win trunk

    now

    now intrunk

  • louislandry

    I personally don't have an issue with that sort of stuff though

  • elinw

    well jbs tends to be conservatice

    oh i forgot to say too about bugs

    that helpingwith test ocverage is huge

  • MichaelC

    nothing wrong with a conservative jbs

  • elinw

    if you have that skill set, either functional or unit that will really help

    ya

  • _Klas

    conservative..just not in 1.6.16 case

  • elinw

    we have millions of funcitoning sites

  • elinw

    unit tests will help us catch things like php 4 compatibility

  • K2Joom

    Will all modules, templates etc have to be coded for 1.6, sry late to the party

  • elinw

    which thank goodness we don't need for 1.6

  • hils

    hello so JBS also covers enhancement decisions and not just bugs?

  • elinw

    no

    well you know one persons bug is another person's feature

  • louislandry

    JBS covers any code base that is in maintenance mode

  • elinw

    that's the nature of software

  • louislandry

    as of right now, that is 1.5.x

    OK, next question

  • elinw

    so ... louis, if something is coded joomla style for 1.5 ... for 1.6

    they need to incorporate ACL

    and if you're using sections you need to cope with that

    what else?

    personally i think you'll want to switch to jform but you won't have to

  • nikosdion

    If I might, this also includes other APIs, like component parameters. We need to know if they're going to change.

  • louislandry

    I don't know off the top of my head, I suspect that is something we will be discovering in the short term

  • bill_

    any k2 features planned for future releases

  • elinw

    it would be great if some people would start testing that and helpingto document

  • K2Joom

    will 1.6 be incorporating any of the current extensions that are available on the market, to make core more stable, secure, functionally better? such as k2

  • nikosdion

    @ We could test that, but we need some rough guidance as to the changes made

  • elinw

    yeah i get it

  • AndrewEddie

    XML installer files will need to change to as a minimum

  • elinw

    yes

  • nikosdion

    @Andrew So much I've figured, but is there any list of changes, or I just have to go through the code while bug fixing my extensions?

  • elinw

    one thing they did with 1.6 is make the core extensions really complete, so they have manifests etc

  • K2Joom

    is always ready to help test for joomla

  • elinw

    +++

  • louislandry

    There are a handful of things that have changed, but it isn't drastic. I suggest you checkout a copy of trunk and see.

  • AndrewEddie

    : not ready, but I expect by Beta2 we'll have one

  • elinw

    i think there is a lot of great work you can take advantage of but you don't have to

  • nikosdion

    Louis, Andrew, thanks! So far I'm checking out the trunk on a weekly basis.

  • louislandry

    What was the next question?

  • jennifermarriott

    There are two questions regarding K2

  • louislandry

    Oh... the "k2 features"

  • louislandry

    We don't have specific plans to mimic any features of K2, but that doesn't mean that features K2 offers won't end up in the core. I expect there will absolutely be some overlap into the future.

  • bill_

    any chance of a 1,6 structure diagram like eddie has for 1.5

  • louislandry

    If fotis wanted to work on a branch getting some features merged into the core he can certainly do that, and we can look at merging that down to trunk when its complete, and working.

    Same is true of anyone

  • elinw

    Anyone can ask for a branch

    @ If someone makes it

  • louislandry

    In fact, IIRC Fotis was given one with Amy and Stian some months ago

  • Andy[0]

    is acccesibility intentionally low on admin control on 1.6?

  • elinw

    Hopefully Andy tarr's template gets in

    Andy it's not intentional obviously

  • louislandry

    lol

  • elinw

    the focus was on th front end layouts

  • Andy[0]

    i.e. link title tags, access keys, article title meta control all seem to be missing?

  • louislandry

    I'd use the word incomplete

  • elinw

    good

  • louislandry

    not "intentionally low"

  • Andy[0]

    what I meant was, has it been taken out of dev on a vote? or is it just missed?

  • elinw

    no just missed as of now

    but if someone wants to work on it, i'm sure that's welcome

  • louislandry

    absolutely

  • Andy[0]

    I currently have to patch Joomla everytime I build as we run a lot of AAA standard websites

  • elinw

    andrea has done great works

  • Andy[0]

    the code already exists for 1.5

  • Andy[0]

    Just isn't in core

  • louislandry

    Next time you do that, why not submit that patch to the issue tracker

  • elinw

    Andy can you put code in the tracker?

  • jennifermarriott

    that would be nice to put on the 1.5 tracker Andy as something for people to test

  • elinw

    yes

  • louislandry

    so hopefully you don't have to keep doing it

  • Andy[0]

    That would be really nice

    It is one of the baines of using Joomla

  • elinw

    accessibility is a core value but we haven't done enough ... but i think 1.6 actually is a real advance

  • louislandry

    OK, next question?

  • elinw

    th front is really well thought out that way and Angie has been on top of it

  • elinw

    And Andrea's template, reallly powerful

  • Andy[0]

    if I hand out my patch for 1.5, any of you have time to convert to 1.6? I'm about to move this weekend so will not have internet for ~2 weeks

  • elinw

    we'll try

  • K2Joom

    I hate to compare against Wordpress, but backend functionality could learn some lessons from them.

  • nikosdion

    Louis, will Administrators still be able to install extensions in 1.6.? If so, can we use ACL to prevent them from doing so? (The ACL stuff in 1.6 is still a bit mystifying for me)

  • bill_

    anyone working on milkway

  • elinw

    yes you can

  • Andy[0]

    : including custom fields, and template assignment on an article basis?

  • elinw

    in what sense?

  • louislandry

    @all ... one at a time please

  • elinw

     

  • louislandry

    otherwise it gets difficult for everyone to follow

  • louislandry

    : do what you can, when you can.

    : Yes, you will be able to choose which user groups have the ability to install extensions in 1.6

  • bill_

    milkway has not been changed much for 1.6

  • nikosdion

    Perfect

  • elinw

    it hasn't needed much

    i updated it to use the same positions as the new templates

    and it's had someo ther work in the xml etc

  • hils

    will Update Manager or equivalent be available in 1.6?

  • elinw

    but the goal is just to keep it funcitoning as it is in 1.5

  • louislandry

    the purpose of milkyway in 1.6 is to be the "legacy" template with layout overrides that as closely match the 1.5 markup as possible

  • Little^John

    Regarding ACL .. Will 1.6 force some kinds of standards for ext., so ACL can be used throughout all components? (thinking of backend only)

  • louislandry

    1.6 will have an ability to update extensions out of the box.

  • hils

    excellent

  • louislandry

    There really isn't a way to "force" coding standards for extensions, but the ACL stuff is systemic, and it most certainly can be used throughout all extensions.

  • elinw

    i think it needs to be, isn't that right?

  • Andy[0]

    Has joomla 1.6 got rid of the ominous position names, user1/2/3 ?

  • elinw

    you at least need those lines, which aren't much

    yes

  • elinw

    well remember position names come from templates

  • Andy[0]

    Yes, but are the default build tempaltes "setting the trend" ?

  • elinw

    so after a lot of discussion what we did in the smaple data

    is to use totally generic names i.e. positin-1 position-2 etc

  • parthlawate

    Hi All .. hope i am not too late.. joining from a train

  • elinw

    i think we have 12

    because the people doing templates wanted more more more positions

    which you can see in beez2

  • bill_

    is anyone else contributing templates to 1.6 release

  • Andy[0]

    I wanted to, but I was told I am too late

  • louislandry

    So far the only one in a branch was beez2

    and it was merged down into trunk (partially) earlier in the week.

  • elinw

    well and atomic but that's not for production

    yes

    if you install it's used in the parks sample site

  • Andy[0]

    I wanted to get my desktop template as an alternative admin template into 1.6 build, it's in a branch atm

  • louislandry

    If other templates are added to branches before the 5 May 2010 cutoff then they will certainly be considered for 1.6

    Ah, I was talking about frontend templates, sorry

  • Andy[0]

    ah, ok.

  • elinw

    it's always a tradeoff between weiight of the package and the desire to add stuff

  • Andy[0]

    Yeah I've tried to get Joomla team to create a "lightweight" package as well

  • elinw

    with this template project for JSOP

  • Andy[0]

    one that has only minimum core (no additional components)

  • Little^John

    Will there be an Alpha 3 or Beta 1 soon?

  • Andy[0]

    and the code is compressed

  • elinw

    I at least am hoping that we will get a bunch of great templates easily installable

  • louislandry

    We will not do an alpha3 ... and we do expect a beta1 soon

  • elinw

    and we can put a link to that site right in the backcend

  • Andy[0]

    I know this is for 1.6, but is there an area for talks on 1.7 yet (i.e. a google group, or in the forums?)

  • m4co

    so If I want to donate a template admin for J 1.6, all I have to do is create a branch ?

  • louislandry

    I see no reason why we can't talk about 1.7 on the mailing lists

  • elinw

    no promises on anything

  • m4co

    I'm not asking for promisses, maybe I should rephrase it

  • elinw

    Andy there has been some 1.7 talk already on list

    one week to feature freeze

  • Andy[0]

    : I was told admin templates will not be added

  • m4co

    ah what a pitty

  • Andy[0]

    told me that about my template atleast, and I believe to adminpraise as well

  • elinw

    well if hathor, the accessible template, is beta ready it will go in i think

  • m4co

    : you're the one who did that jquery admin template, right ?

  • Andy[0]

    yeah

  • m4co

    very nice work

  • Andy[0]

    it now works perfectly with mootools

    so no compat issues

    1.5 version is almost exiting beta

  • elinw

    but look, the beauty of joomla is it take 3 minutes to download and install a template

  • Andy[0]

    and 1.6 is at beta 0.2

  • m4co

    : who provided hathor ?

    I'm working on a accessible template called Minima, I shared on the list before

  • elinw

    that's the andrea tarr fsoc projcet

  • louislandry

    Generally speaking yes that is it. If there are any improvements that anyone wants to make, the same thing holds true whether it is a template or an extension or improvements to the existing functionality... then you just need to make sure it is complete, working and up to date and we can consider it.

  • elinw

    why put up a link to it the other day on list

  • Andy[0]

    : this why I suggested a download mechanism like this:

  • jools

    Title: jQuery UI - Configure your download (at jqueryui.com)

  • hils

    if links to front end templates will be available in admin then links to admin templates could be available too?

  • Andy[0]

    for Joomla, so there is a maximum/minimum build size

  • m4co

    : and the last day for that is May 5th when there will be the branch freeze ?

  • louislandry

    for 1.6 yes

    but you can still work on things like that in branches

    and as soon as 1.6 is released GA

    we will start looking at merging for 1.7

  • rvsjoen

    does the branch freeze imply a transition to beta ?

  • louislandry

    yes

  • elinw

    yes

  • louislandry

    its a first step

  • Andy[0]

    Can i get my 1.6 folder in my branch moved over to the 1.6 branch?

  • rvsjoen

    nice

  • louislandry

    I don't know what that means

  • elinw

    Sam could probably help with that

  • Sander

    Will Joomla 1.6 also have ACL for the content of the media manager? (I don't mean the access to the media manager itself but for the files and folders in the media manager)

  • louislandry

    no.

  • elinw

    no

  • bill_

    why strange chars in new forms

  • elinw

    the only thing that granular is articles as far as i know

  • rvsjoen

    speaking of media manager, does the 1.6 media manager pack the same media manager as 1.5 or has there been development on that end as well

  • luscarpa

    Hi all, I'm Luca form Italy, I have a question about Mootools, today Mootools Team has released 1.3 beta1, I know that is a beta, but probably we have a stable release with stable version of j1.6, there is a plan to integrate and test it?

  • m4co

    : good question +

  • Sander

    that's a pity, feature plans on this?

  • louislandry

    We will certainly be looking at and workign with the mootools team to get the latest version (1.3) into 1.6

  • elinw

    3pds can exppose it

  • Andy[0]

    On a similiar subject, can we get a copy of jquery & jqueryUI into the JS lib in core?

  • louislandry

    I'll probably be talking with aaron and valerio in the next couple of days about it

  • elinw

    and work oni implementng

  • louislandry

    : no, probably not.

  • elinw

    ok so can we do one question at a time

  • Andy[0]

    sorry, I'll wait.

  • luscarpa

    this is a good news

  • elinw

    about the acl ... louis correct me if i'm wrong please, but can't 3pds work wit hthe api to extend it to more granualar

  • m4co

    off I go, thanks and for the answers. bye everyone

  • louislandry

    The 1.6 media manager is very very similar to the 1.5 one. No one found it interesting enough or important enough to really work on it evidently.

  • m4co

    : will check your template later

  • nikosdion

    Will a (far) future version of Joomla! support storing files uploaded to the Media Manager in a CDN, e.g. Amazon CloudFront?

  • louislandry

    There is no way to extend the ACL system to work with files managed by the media manager because they are not currently tracked in the database as far as i know.

  • elinw

    true

    but in other components

  • louislandry

    : if someone builds it, maybe

    Look its important to remember that all of the questions about what "might" be in future versions of joomla depend greatly on what people like you and me decide they want to work on.

  • Andy[0]

    : Is there a reason why not? (re:jquery/jqueryUI) It would mean people are not tied down to 1 JS library, I have proven mootools and jquery can work alongside each other in harmony

  • nikosdion

    Lousi, thanks. It's something I was considering for the near future, I wanted to make sure it's not something already in progress.

  • Little^John

    , some components does this. Eg. Jomsocial has options for Amazon.. (its not the same, I know, but related)

  • nikosdion

    I know

  • louislandry

    I'd love to see work done on the media manager... it needs lots of love ... so if you are intersted please jump into a branch and make some magic

  • elinw

    i think a number of peopl have implemented amazon solutions

    yes

    but no one in a branch

  • nikosdion

    Louis, will do, once I get the hang of 1.6's code.

  • bill_

    how do i arrange for a branch

  • louislandry

    : The principle reasons why not is that we don't use jquery in the core. We have no plans for using jquery in the core. And it really isn't necessary to ship with the core.

  • jlleblanc

    media manager could use a *lot* of love and magic

  • elinw

    it doesn't have to be one person working on it

  • louislandry

    : send an email requesting it to the CMS mailing list and Sam or I will follow up

  • jlleblanc

    : maybe we can work together on it

  • elinw

    a group could decide to take it up

  • nikosdion

    Joseph, agree. Will catch up with you later on that

  • elinw

    +++ joe

    and

  • jlleblanc

    I'd really like to see something more reusable across components. Always have people wanting images in 3PD components

  • elinw

    ha, i'm pushing being compuliive on that

  • louislandry

    Ya there is a mountain of stuff i'd like to see it do

  • elinw

    compulsive

    and also on strings for consisent ui

  • MichaelC

    : it would be great to give a choice between jQuery and Mootools. It may not be possible, but I use jQuery for everything and then need to use a sledgehammer to force it into Joomla (which sucks)

  • jlleblanc

    thinks "great, what did I just sign up for"

  • elinw

     

    evil grin

  • nikosdion

    thinks the same, but that's what makes this worth it

  • louislandry

    : I suggest you work with a team on a jQuery plugin that can be used to achieve waht you want.

    Every time the debate opens

  • jlleblanc

    : I prefer jQuery as well, but I support the decision to stick with MooTools.

  • louislandry

    someone says they are going to work with it

    or on it

    and it hasn't come to fruition yet

  • bill_

    thanks for info and allhard work that core developers are doing

  • elinw

    if you have the itch, scratch it

  • louislandry

    So take that energy and desire, and get with some people who have it too... and make it happen

  • jlleblanc

    ++

  • louislandry

    I'm sure the greater community would be appreciative

  • jlleblanc

    I think if all of the 3PDs wanting to use jQuery can come together and agree on a standard plugin, method, etc... for incorporating jQuery, we can find a way of incorporating it more easily in Joomla

    right now, everyone kind of does their own thing when it comes to jQuery and Joomla.

  • elinw

    you know with the student program in talking about it we really came to a focus on teams

    having groupw work together

  • nikosdion

    The hardest part is getting together. Other than that, we'd all agree to extend JHTML to load jQuery just like it does for mooTools, I think.

  • elinw

    it's really a good thing

  • louislandry

    OK all... my time is up... have some things i need to get done this morning so I will leave it here. Thanks!

  • elinw

    thanks, this was fun

  • nikosdion

    Thank you both

  • MichaelC

    thanks guys!

  • hils

    thank you

  • jlleblanc

    thanks everyone

  • Andy[0]

    thanks for your time guys