We publish here the chat log from our last "Ask The Joomla Team" Session.

Next Session will be happen on 19th May 2010 12 UTC with Robert Deutz and Louis Landry.

How Can You Join Ask the Joomla Team

You can meet us in the #joomla-ask-the-team chat room on irc.freenode.net

One very easy way to join is to visit this link: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#joomla-ask-the-team

Chat log

[9:17pm] severdia:Good evening
[9:17pm] AndrewEddie joined the chat room.
[9:17pm] ian_mac_ joined the chat room.
[9:18pm] ian_mac_:okay
[9:18pm] ian_mac_:looks like we're running a little bit hehind
[9:18pm] ian_mac_:does anybody have any questions?
[9:19pm] severdia:Welcome Ian?
[9:19pm] ian_mac_:thanks Ron
[9:19pm] severdia:That wasn't supposed to be a question..
[9:19pm] ian_mac_:ok
[9:20pm] lafrance joined the chat room.
[9:22pm] severdia:I have a question.
[9:22pm] ian_mac_:ok
[9:22pm] AndrewEddie:LOL
[9:22pm] ian_mac_:go for it
[9:22pm] jconsultingza joined the chat room.
[9:22pm] Amy_ joined the chat room.
[9:22pm] lafrance:hello lovely Amy
[9:23pm] severdia:What's the thing people are most looking forward to in Joomla 1.6?
[9:23pm] elkuku:a stable framework with a good documentation
[9:23pm] ian_mac_:a fresh slate and a chance to implement a real incremental release cycle
[9:24pm] Amy_:++ ian
[9:24pm] Amy_:hey Pierre
[9:24pm] ian_mac_:and the possibility of actually doing a release in approx. 6 months
[9:25pm] ian_mac_:anybbody else?
[9:25pm] lafrance:a dum one will we close J 1.0 forum and ad J 1.6 ? once in stable
[9:25pm] elkuku:seems like today its you both asking the questions
[9:26pm] xyzulu joined the chat room.
[9:26pm] ian_mac_:I would hope so
[9:26pm] ian_mac_:though perhaps we'll just let the 1.0 forums die a natural death
[9:26pm] lafrance:follow up same for legacy mode J 1.5 will be removed from jed?
[9:27pm] elkuku:somewhat related: can you confirm that once 1.7 is out, that means end of life for 1.5 ?
[9:27pm] ian_mac_:not necessareily
[9:27pm] ian_mac_:we have committed
[9:27pm] ian_mac_:IIRC to 1.5 support for 1 year after 1.6 is released
[9:27pm] ian_mac_:so
[9:27pm] ian_mac_:that would mean that support for 1.5 would end approximately 6 months after 1.7 is released
[9:28pm] OnTheMarkDesign joined the chat room.
[9:28pm] Amy_:3 releases at once?
[9:28pm] severdia:Yes
[9:28pm] elkuku:thats close..
[9:28pm] ian_mac_:it won't be three releases at once in the strictest sense
[9:29pm] ian_mac_:b/c 1.5 will basically be on security life support
[9:29pm] ian_mac_:and the focus will be much more on the trunk
[9:29pm] Amy_:ok - that helps
[9:29pm] ian_mac_:rather than on release branches as we have done in the past
[9:29pm] ian_mac_:we don't plan on creates a releases branch for 1.6
[9:29pm] ian_mac_:it will just stay in trunk
[9:30pm] ian_mac_:and we're going to focus on stable trunk and incremental release
[9:30pm] ian_mac_:argh
[9:30pm] ian_mac_:that should be creating
[9:30pm] Amy_:lol
[9:30pm] Amy_:
[9:30pm] mikekim joined the chat room.
[9:30pm] elkuku:
[9:30pm] ian_mac_:I'm on a netbook and on the other side of the curve
[9:30pm] •severdia likes watching Ian talk and talk..
[9:30pm] mikekim:hi all
[9:30pm] ian_mac_:welcome
[9:31pm] mikekim:thank you
[9:31pm] OnTheMarkDesign:Good Evening Mike
[9:31pm] Amy_:ian - how is bug squad going? we still need to encourage participation?
[9:31pm] Amy_:hey mark!
[9:31pm] Steven__ joined the chat room.
[9:31pm] mikekim:OnTheMarkDesign: it's still morning here
[9:32pm] ian_mac_:when Mark gets back we're going to be ramping up the bug squad
[9:32pm] OnTheMarkDesign:Hey Amy!!!! 930pm for me now
[9:32pm] ian_mac_:my time has been more limited as of late
[9:32pm] ian_mac_:so he's been doing more of the driving with bug squad
[9:32pm] mikekim:what all of questions can i ask the team ? can i ask for solutions to my projects ?
[9:32pm] ian_mac_:and I've been focussing on other things
[9:32pm] Amy_:yea, it's been a little busy
[9:33pm] ian_mac_:mikekim, no, this is more geared towarsds orgaanizational questions
[9:33pm] mikekim:ouch
[9:33pm] mikekim:i got it wrong then
[9:33pm] severdia:Well, if it's a quick solution question we can respond, but let's not veer to far off course
[9:33pm] ian_mac_:you might look in #joomla
[9:33pm] Amy_:how is the admin template coming ron?
[9:33pm] OnTheMarkDesign:It's nice to see a more "open" OSM and more transparency between Joomla! and it's community...
[9:34pm] severdia:The admin template is coming along. I committed a bunch of fixes last night.
[9:34pm] severdia:There are some issues to work out still... and I'll get to those this week.
[9:34pm] Amy_:good - looks like the accessible template is part of 1.6 too?
[9:35pm] jconsultingza:I like the look of the new default template
[9:35pm] ian_mac_:it has been merged in I believe, yes
[9:35pm] severdia:But some will have to wait until the beta phase
[9:35pm] mikekim:all i need is to build a community site for one condo ..which allows tenants/residents to track complaints they have made, etc.
[9:36pm] severdia:@mikekim You might try a trouble ticket system like Dioscouri's Billets
[9:36pm] severdia:So in the beta phase, I've reserved time in our usability testing lab for testing on the admin interface for 1.6
[9:36pm] mikekim:i thought of trouble ticket system too
[9:37pm] ian_mac_:Oh I didn't know that Ron
[9:37pm] ian_mac_:that is very cool
[9:37pm] severdia:Yes, I've shared this a few times... in fact when we were in NY in Dec.
[9:37pm] ian_mac_:ok
[9:37pm] ian_mac_:I probably wasn't listening
[9:37pm] severdia:I know.. it was freakin' cold...
[9:37pm] severdia:
[9:38pm] ian_mac_:meh
[9:38pm] ian_mac_:that wasn't cold
[9:38pm] ian_mac_:it was still eaarly december
[9:38pm] severdia:Er... yeah.. for a "Cali Guy" like me it's like Antarctica
[9:38pm] ian_mac_:hehe
[9:39pm] severdia:So once a beta is released, I'll finish compiling the usability protocol for the testing.
[9:39pm] Steve_T joined the chat room.
[9:39pm] Steven__ left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[9:39pm] adamwooding joined the chat room.
[9:39pm] ian_mac_:that should give us a great set of recommendations. Some we can implement in 1.6, some may have to wait until 1.7
[9:39pm] severdia:For those that aren't familiar with how usability testing works, a usability protocol is essentially the process and specific points/tasks for users to accomplish in the test.
[9:40pm] severdia:So it (hopefully) validates our task analysis.
[9:40pm] artyom joined the chat room.
[9:40pm] Steve_T:are you doing in house testing or remote testing?
[9:40pm] severdia:In house
[9:41pm] adamwooding is now known as AdamWooding.
[9:41pm] severdia:We may supplement that with remote if we feel there's something to gain.
[9:41pm] severdia:But until we've worked out the protocol, we don't see a reason at this time
[9:42pm] Steve_T:thats great, very happy to hear this, hoppfully will provide good feedback from the non developer crowd
[9:43pm] severdia:Yeah.. so just FYI (not to do a shameless plug), I own a boutique agency in San Francisco and we have our own lab in house. We do a ton of user experience work in SF and Silicon Valley.
[9:44pm] severdia:So that's the angle I'm coming at the interface from.
[9:44pm] severdia:That being said, the goal has never been to depart drastically from the 1.5 interface.
[9:45pm] severdia:But AFAIK, that's never had any formal usability testing.
[9:45pm] OnTheMarkDesign:the more user friendly the better
[9:45pm] ian_mac_:the questioni n my mind is always, friendly to what user?
[9:45pm] ian_mac_:I mean
[9:45pm] ian_mac_:with as many options as we have
[9:45pm] ian_mac_:we have to bring some to the forefront
[9:45pm] ian_mac_:and hide some
[9:45pm] ian_mac_:but what do you hide?
[9:45pm] severdia:Exactly.
[9:46pm] ian_mac_:the answer to that question will differ on the application
[9:46pm] severdia:So when we redesigned J.org a few years ago, we compiled a number of User Personas that represent the breadth of Joomla users
[9:46pm] lafrance:Question ?
[9:46pm] jerimiah joined the chat room.
[9:46pm] ian_mac_:lafrance, go ahead
[9:46pm] severdia:We put them into three primary personas.
[9:47pm] Steve_T:well, whats the target market for Joomla! ... developer's or end users with little exp trying to build a website? (this is for joomla core only)
[9:47pm] wendy409 joined the chat room.
[9:47pm] severdia:Good question.
[9:47pm] ian_mac_:Steve_T, yes
[9:48pm] lafrance:Are there any improvement made to the database so there less over flow?
[9:48pm] severdia:So the users we identified at the time were: 1) Complete novice/new to Joomla
[9:48pm] severdia:2) The moderate-level site admin/site builder.
[9:48pm] OnTheMarkDesign:@Steve T - I'm one of those who fits in the middle of those 2 target markets
[9:49pm] severdia:3) The more sophisticated developer.
[9:49pm] elkuku:the template look great to me - exceptional - but, it does not use javascript in filter boxes - is that due to accessibility ?
[9:49pm] severdia:Which template?
[9:49pm] elkuku:hathor i mean..
[9:50pm] elkuku:thats what you were on ?
[9:50pm] ian_mac_:I don't think either of us could comment on that
[9:50pm] severdia:Ah.. yes, i presume it's because of accessibility. I haven't looked at Hathor in a while.
[9:50pm] ian_mac_:that was developed by Andy Tarr primarily IIUC
[9:50pm] ian_mac_:we could assume and make a guess, but I certainly don't know
[9:50pm] severdia:Yes
[9:50pm] elkuku:ah ok i am sorry (blush) thought you were talking about that..
[9:51pm] severdia:But generally speaking, Javascript is an accessiblity breaker.
[9:51pm] elkuku:ok, that answers my queston
[9:51pm] elkuku:+i
[9:51pm] ian_mac_:ok lafrance
[9:51pm] ian_mac_:your question
[9:51pm] ian_mac_:define overflow
[9:51pm] lafrance:Are there any improvement made to the database so there less over flow?
[9:52pm] ian_mac_:I'm not sure what that question means
[9:52pm] lafrance:jos_session is one
[9:52pm] ian_mac_:ahhh
[9:52pm] ian_mac_:so
[9:52pm] ian_mac_:yes
[9:52pm] ian_mac_:there were some issues
[9:52pm] ian_mac_:I believe
[9:52pm] ian_mac_:where records in the session talbe were not getting deleted?
[9:52pm] ian_mac_:is that what you're referring to?
[9:53pm] lafrance:that it
[9:53pm] ian_mac_:ok
[9:53pm] ian_mac_:I don't know if anybody has taken the time to track that down
[9:53pm] ian_mac_:it would be nice to figure that out
[9:53pm] lafrance:sorry the lost of Vancouver got me all fluster
[9:53pm] ian_mac_:lol
[9:54pm] lafrance:I was wondering if it a joomla issue or mysql?
[9:54pm] ian_mac_:I'm not certain
[9:54pm] ian_mac_:when I was implementing the session fixation patch
[9:54pm] ian_mac_:there were certainly a few things that caused my eyebrows to raise
[9:55pm] severdia:And he has big eyebrows so that means a lot.
[9:55pm] ian_mac_:so I wouldnn't rule out Joomla
[9:55pm] lafrance:for big site like jed it cause lots of pain and grief
[9:56pm] ian_mac_:yeah
[9:56pm] Steve_T:so, will 1.6 give me the option to add fields to the registration withot hacks or extensions
[9:57pm] severdia:Define "hack"?
[9:57pm] ian_mac_:you can do that in 1.5 without hacks
[9:57pm] ian_mac_:so certainly you can do it in 1.6 without hacks
[9:57pm] ian_mac_:it will certainly be easier to develop an extension to have that easily managed
[9:57pm] Steve_T:changing core files and the database . and NOT installing an extension
[9:58pm] ian_mac_:because we have a new mechanism that allows you to inject fields in there
[9:58pm] jerimiah:JForm?
[9:58pm] ian_mac_:AndrewEddie could probably correct me if I'm wrong here
[9:58pm] ian_mac_:yes JForm
[9:58pm] severdia:Yes, in almost all cases, an extension can hijack users, articles, etc.
[9:59pm] AndrewEddie:Steve_T: You'll need plugins to manipulate the form and deal with the data
[9:59pm] jerimiah:so a plugin can act like a psuedo hook system in this case?
[9:59pm] AndrewEddie:yes
[9:59pm] Steve_T:ok so the answer is no it is not a defult thing, i will need some sort of add on, cool thanks
[10:00pm] AndrewEddie:someone could "build" a full on form manipulation system - that would be pretty cool
[10:01pm] ian_mac_:yes, it will require an extension, but it won't require a layout override or hackish code like was required in 1.5
[10:01pm] AndrewEddie:well, you might require a layout override to make it prettier
[10:01pm] ian_mac_:maybe
[10:01pm] wendy409 left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving)
[10:03pm] jerimiah:hows the dev site coming along?
[10:03pm] ian_mac_:progress on it has been stalled because focus has been on 1.6
[10:06pm] severdia:Yes, I think we've all tried to narrow our focus on 1.6 so that will be soon.
[10:06pm] severdia:It's coming along nicely though. It will be a really cool resource once it's ready.
[10:06pm] Firestorm joined the chat room.
[10:06pm] Firestorm:sorry, which dev site is this, or are you talking abuot the whole site redesign
[10:06pm] ian_mac_:++
[10:07pm] jerimiah:developers site
[10:07pm] severdia:And even Microsoft will be contributing.
[10:07pm] ian_mac_:microsoft already has
[10:07pm] Firestorm left the chat room.
[10:08pm] severdia:Yes, of course.. lemme rephrase that.
[10:08pm] Amy_:ron - yes - interested in the developers site, too
[10:09pm] Steve_T left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:10pm] jerimiah:I came in late, was there an update on 1.6 beta date?
[10:10pm] jerimiah:Since it seems a bit quiet
[10:10pm] ian_mac_:no, there hasn't been an update
[10:11pm] ian_mac_:it will be soonish tthough I think
[10:11pm] severdia:But you heard it here first...
[10:11pm] severdia:It's coming...
[10:11pm] severdia:"soonish"
[10:11pm] ian_mac_:this year sometime for sure
[10:11pm] severdia:ha
[10:11pm] ian_mac_:2010 is the year of the Joomla 1.6 beta
[10:12pm] jerimiah:indeed
[10:12pm] severdia:Could this month be the Month of Joomla 1.6 beta, Ian?
[10:12pm] ian_mac_:I dunno
[10:12pm] ian_mac_:that's a tough one
[10:12pm] jerimiah:has any thought been given to a code sprint of some sort?
[10:12pm] ian_mac_:well, we are feature frozen now
[10:12pm] ian_mac_:so
[10:13pm] ian_mac_:we're going to be ramping up the bug squad
[10:13pm] severdia:Branches are merged?
[10:13pm] ian_mac_:which will help stabilize the release
[10:13pm] ian_mac_:all feature branches are merged IIUC
[10:13pm] ian_mac_:so
[10:13pm] jerimiah:iiuc?
[10:13pm] severdia:So we could be really really close
[10:13pm] ian_mac_:we have planned to do some weekend events I think
[10:13pm] ian_mac_:If I understand correctly
[10:14pm] AndrewEddie:PBF's will probably start up again
[10:14pm] AndrewEddie:can't recall whether the B stands for Beer or Bugs
[10:14pm] ian_mac_:hehehe
[10:14pm] ian_mac_:I think it stands for both
[10:14pm] jerimiah:I think there might be lots of opportunity to expand outside of the bug squad, maybe encourage JUGs to have a bug search session, things like that
[10:15pm] xyzulu left the chat room.
[10:15pm] severdia:Yeah.. those are all great things...
[10:15pm] ian_mac_:well, the bug squad now operatoes in an IRC channel
[10:16pm] severdia:Once the beta is released, the JBS will be more active in getting a stable release...
[10:16pm] severdia:(they're already a bit at the moment)
[10:16pm] OnTheMarkDesign:We can certainly mention it in the Joomla! Community Magazine when the 1st is released.... soon.......
[10:17pm] OnTheMarkDesign:issue is
[10:17pm] severdia:Yes... that's another great project. Really looking forward to the launch of that.
[10:17pm] OnTheMarkDesign:lots going on "in the background" right now with JCM!
[10:18pm] ian_mac_:okay
[10:18pm] ian_mac_:well
[10:18pm] ian_mac_:if there are no othert questions
[10:19pm] severdia:Is that all the questions?
[10:19pm] ian_mac_:i think we'll wind this sucker up
[10:19pm] severdia:I expected this to be like an episode of Meet the Press or something
[10:19pm] severdia:Thanks everybody for going easy on me.
[10:20pm] Amy_:
[10:20pm] jerimiah:thanks guys
[10:20pm] ian_mac_:thanks all for coming
[10:20pm] ian_mac_:it was great chatting
[10:20pm] elkuku:thanks for the talk
[10:20pm] AndrewEddie left the chat room.
[10:20pm] Amy_:thanks guys
[10:20pm] lafrance:thanks ian_mac for the info
[10:20pm] lafrance:well back to jed for me got 30 extension to publish
[10:20pm] jerimiah left the chat room. (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539] )
[10:20pm] lafrance left the chat room. ("The best time to fix the roof is when the sun is shining.|John F. Kennedy||")
[10:23pm] OnTheMarkDesign:Thanks
[10:23pm] jconsultingza left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[10:23pm] OnTheMarkDesign:We need to make it point to "get the word out" about these weekly chats since it seems to be "working"!