We publish here the chat log from our last "Ask The Joomla Team" Session.

Next Session will be happen on 7th July 2010 20 UTC with Javier Gómez and Mark Dexter.

How Can You Join Ask the Joomla Team

You can meet us in the #joomla-ask-the-team chat room on irc.freenode.net

One very easy way to join is to visit this link: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#joomla-ask-the-team

Chat log

[2:00pm] elinw: so
[2:00pm] xyzulu: Hello to the iOS4 fans out there.. err.. sorry.. I mean Joomla fans..
[2:00pm] xyzulu: what do we want to talk about today?
[2:01pm] elinw: so it's Brad and Elin ready to talk
[2:01pm] chuvantai joined the chat room.
[2:01pm] xyzulu: Oh.. I'm Brad in case you were wondering.
[2:01pm] elinw: so anyone have a topic or a question?
[2:02pm] elinw: Or brad can continue to be a fan
[2:02pm] chuvantai left the chat room.
[2:02pm] elinw: or i can suggest bugs people might want to fix
[2:02pm] elinw:
[2:03pm] ian_mac_: when will the new iPhone be released?
[2:03pm] elinw: brad, that's yours
[2:03pm] xyzulu: When it's ready.
[2:03pm] nithinalex joined the chat room.
[2:03pm] magnoliaweb: Thursday I think
[2:03pm] ian_mac_: will it support unsigned apps?
[2:03pm] elinw: heh "it'll be ready when it's ready"
[2:03pm] ian_mac_:
[2:04pm] xyzulu: Sure, after a JB
[2:04pm] magnoliaweb: Not that I waiting impatiently or anything
[2:04pm] elinw:
[2:04pm] xyzulu: I liked your blog Sandra.. good work
[2:05pm] magnoliaweb: Thank you! I had fun with it
[2:05pm] elinw: the people site is really going great
[2:05pm] elinw: but i'm not getting anyone in my 5th birthday of joomla group
[2:05pm] Iszak: xyzulu, is the database core going to be refactored to allow better adaptor handling and reduction in redundant code?
[2:05pm] magnoliaweb: I think so too. Very excited about so many new groups and plans and such
[2:06pm] mlipscomb: Its because you didn't offer cake
[2:06pm] elinw: i think there is active work by a number of people on database issues
[2:06pm] elinw: but i'm glad to let brad answer that one
[2:06pm] • xyzulu is not a coder
[2:06pm] elinw: because that's his specialty
[2:06pm] Iszak: So no code-related questions? right.
[2:06pm] elinw: There is currently an active thread i believeo n the CMS list
[2:06pm] elinw: 1.6 basics fine
[2:07pm] elinw: bugs great
[2:07pm] xyzulu: It sounds like a well thought out qn.. have you been follwing the mailing list?
[2:07pm] elinw: we'll do the best we can
[2:07pm] elinw: but big picture no
[2:07pm] Iszak: xyzulu, qn => question?
[2:07pm] elinw: i would join in that thread
[2:07pm] xyzulu: yes, sorry.
[2:07pm] elinw: and maybe get in on that branch that has been started
[2:07pm] Iszak: Isn't that for an SQL server adapter tho?
[2:07pm] Iszak: or are you referring to a different one?
[2:08pm] Odds joined the chat room.
[2:08pm] elinw: there's a more general underlying idea
[2:08pm] Odds left the chat room. (Client Quit)
[2:08pm] Iszak: I see, I haven't really been paying attention either.
[2:08pm] elinw: that a number of people have started on over the past year
[2:08pm] Iszak: I might take a look, but last time I looked the database classes were a mess.
[2:08pm] Iszak: redundant code in that sense.
[2:08pm] elinw: but we coul really use some people who want to dive in deep on that i would say
[2:08pm] elinw: have you looked at 1.6? or are you talking 1.5?
[2:09pm] elinw: but reraly
[2:09pm] elinw: we're not the people to ask
[2:09pm] elinw: like ... probably the two people who you shouldn't ask
[2:09pm] Iszak: 1.6
[2:09pm] nithinalex left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[2:09pm] lennin joined the chat room.
[2:09pm] elinw: If you think they're a mess I would hop on the framework list
[2:09pm] nithinalex joined the chat room.
[2:10pm] Iszak: I'm already on it.
[2:10pm] elinw: and discuss
[2:10pm] elinw: no i mean, post
[2:10pm] Iszak: I do discuss, how about my .htaccess change proposal.
[2:10pm] elinw: ok good
[2:10pm] nithinalex left the chat room. (Client Quit)
[2:10pm] lennin: hi everyone!
[2:10pm] elinw: hi
[2:10pm] magnoliaweb: Hi Lennin
[2:11pm] lennin: i have a question for you
[2:11pm] elinw: ok
[2:11pm] nithinalex joined the chat room.
[2:11pm] elinw: go ahead
[2:12pm] nithinalex left the chat room. (Client Quit)
[2:12pm] lennin: can i migrate a joomla 1.0 component to joomla 1.5
[2:12pm] lennin: ?
[2:12pm] lennin: i mean
[2:13pm] lennin: it was made by an indian team
[2:13pm] elinw: ok yes you can, but how well depens a lot on the original code
[2:13pm] lennin: i need to move a this component to joomla 1.5
[2:13pm] Iszak: why not 1.6?
[2:13pm] lennin: can i use legacy mode?
[2:13pm] elinw: ok, so have you tried to installl it with legacy?
[2:14pm] elinw: i would try that first
[2:14pm] elinw: if htat work
[2:14pm] elinw: s
[2:14pm] elinw: Andrew wrote a good tutorial on getting out of legacy mode
[2:14pm] elinw: in many cases it's some relatively simple changes
[2:14pm] lennin: can you show me the link!
[2:14pm] lennin: ?
[2:15pm] lennin: please!
[2:15pm] elinw: http://www.theartofjoomla.com/home/5-commentary/7-removing-a-legacy-part-1.html
[2:15pm] jools: Title: Removing a Legacy: Part 1 (at www.theartofjoomla.com)
[2:15pm] lennin: thanks!
[2:15pm] elinw: you're welcome
[2:15pm] oldm8 joined the chat room.
[2:15pm] elinw: i did an experiment before the jed when 1.5 only
[2:15pm] xyzulu: He wrote 3 in a series: http://www.theartofjoomla.com/home/7-legacy/45-joomla-10-end-of-life-its-time-to-upgrade-your-extensions.html
[2:15pm] elinw: and i found that almost everything worke in legacy
[2:15pm] jools: Title: Joomla 1.0 End-of-Life - It's time to upgrade your extensions (at www.theartofjoomla.com)
[2:15pm] OpenPotion joined the chat room.
[2:16pm] elinw: an many were easy to switch to non legacy
[2:16pm] OpenPotion: Hi... I'm a bit late to the party, but wanted to see what was going on.
[2:16pm] elinw: he's got a cheat sheet there too
[2:16pm] oldm8 left the chat room.
[2:16pm] elinw: we're just talking, and if you have a question feel free to ask
[2:16pm] mlipscomb: Hi Jason
[2:16pm] lennin: I know, but they are unsupported components
[2:16pm] OpenPotion: Hi great...
[2:17pm] elinw: yeah
[2:17pm] test joined the chat room.
[2:17pm] elinw: well the nice thing about open source is that if tehy stop supporting you can keep moving it forward yourself
[2:17pm] elinw: i should say ONE nice thing
[2:17pm] test is now known as Guest25012.
[2:17pm] OpenPotion: I have a question... Why Mootools? Why not switch to jquery? It seems to be a lot more popular and therefore there would be less conflicts with external integrations.... but I know next to nothing about javascript...
[2:18pm] OpenPotion: can anyone enlighten me?
[2:18pm] elinw: mootools and jquery are quite different in intent and structure
[2:19pm] OpenPotion: all I know is they conflict and cause me headaches...
[2:19pm] OpenPotion:
[2:19pm] elinw: again we're not the ones to ask but ... mootools is a framework for different purpose
[2:19pm] elinw: well hoepfully in 1.6 conflicts are less
[2:19pm] elinw: aaron newton wrote what i think is a very fair comparison
[2:19pm] lennin: ok thanks! i´m gonna try to use this component in joomla 1.5 on legacy mode
[2:20pm] OpenPotion: I noticed the notice about upgrading joomla 1.5 to the newer mootools
[2:20pm] lennin: ok
[2:20pm] elinw: http://jqueryvsmootools.com/
[2:20pm] jools: Title: jQuery vs MooTools: Choosing Between Two Great JavaScript Frameworks (at jqueryvsmootools.com)
[2:20pm] lennin: i have another question
[2:20pm] elinw: yes
[2:20pm] lennin: what about joomla 1.6 api?
[2:20pm] elinw: what about it?
[2:20pm] OpenPotion: great thanx.
[2:20pm] lennin: is it different to joomla 1.5?
[2:20pm] elinw: there are some differences but the main thing is that the deprecated thigns from 1.0 are gone
[2:21pm] elinw: from the way i understand it, apis are deprecated for one or more releases before they are actually removed
[2:21pm] elinw: now the biggest change will of course be the access control
[2:22pm] xyzulu: I have a t-shirt that implies that actually...
[2:22pm] elinw: and that all the extension developers will need to adapt to
[2:22pm] elinw: http://shop.joomla.org
[2:22pm] jools: Title: Please, click on the picture of your choice to see the product detail. (at shop.joomla.org)
[2:22pm] elinw: buy those shires
[2:22pm] elinw: or shirts
[2:23pm] Guest25012: Will you going to provide any easy upgradation solution to convert 1.5 project to 1.6?
[2:23pm] elinw: but if you look at the code in the core, you see that it's not actually that much code to implement access control in an extension
[2:23pm] OpenPotion: another question... raises hand
[2:23pm] elinw: easy ....
[2:23pm] elinw: sec
[2:23pm] elinw: so there willl be a migration script from what i understand
[2:23pm] elinw: there is a team in jbs working on that
[2:23pm] elinw: and they could use helping hands
[2:24pm] elinw: also docs about differences --- really a great place to jump in and learn 1.6
[2:24pm] xyzulu: If I could just add though..
[2:24pm] lennin: i was hoping another database support, something like postgres
[2:25pm] elinw: support ... meaning it will run on postgres or there is a driver?
[2:25pm] xyzulu: you will not need to migrate.. or be "forced" to.. if you want 1.6, then you'd migrate.. if not.. use 1.5 at least for a while.
[2:25pm] elinw: there has been work on a driver
[2:25pm] elinw: it's in the database branch
[2:25pm] elinw: i'm sure they would welcome people checking tha branch out and testing al of the drivers that are there
[2:25pm] lennin: but it´s unstable or not?
[2:25pm] elinw: the branch?
[2:25pm] lennin: no
[2:25pm] elinw: 1.6?
[2:25pm] lennin: postgres driver
[2:26pm] lennin: for joomla
[2:26pm] elinw: oh i believe it works very well from what i have been told
[2:26pm] elinw: but that's just to be able to talk to postgres
[2:26pm] elinw: not run on it
[2:26pm] elinw: OpenPotion?
[2:26pm] OpenPotion: Yes!
[2:26pm] pallavi_ joined the chat room.
[2:26pm] elinw: what's your quetion?
[2:27pm] OpenPotion: As a webdesigner that has soley been working with joomla...
[2:27pm] OpenPotion: I deal with SEO companies and such and they are all DIE hard wordpress junkies
[2:27pm] elinw: ok
[2:27pm] OpenPotion: with worpress 3.0 coming out are there SEO enhancements?
[2:28pm] OpenPotion: and what advantages does joomla have over wordpress 3.0?
[2:28pm] elinw: ok well, in terms of SEO only?
[2:28pm] OpenPotion: the main one I see is permissions
[2:28pm] elinw: or in general?
[2:28pm] OpenPotion: in general
[2:28pm] AndrewEddie joined the chat room.
[2:28pm] elinw: Well of course WP is a great application, but Joomla! has a lot of advantages
[2:28pm] elinw: First of all, Joomla! is highly and easily extensible
[2:29pm] OpenPotion: Hey Andrew
[2:29pm] elinw: which is why you get so many extensions
[2:29pm] elinw: and you can really do anything
[2:29pm] lennin: hey Andrew
[2:29pm] OpenPotion: I just asked the advantages of Joomla 1.6 over WP 3.0
[2:29pm] elinw: Now, that does make it somewhat more complex to use than WP
[2:29pm] elinw: which has a really simple user interface taht we're jealous of
[2:29pm] elinw: but
[2:30pm] elinw: there is always a trade off in that
[2:30pm] OpenPotion: will there be a UX or usibility team added?
[2:30pm] OpenPotion: to focus on making the interface easier for non nerds?
[2:30pm] elinw: I think that is really important and i hope that the production team will think about that as a big issue for 1.7
[2:30pm] elinw: but that's just me
[2:31pm] elinw: But we do have a cool JSOP project on usability testing starting
[2:31pm] pallavi_ left the chat room.
[2:31pm] elinw: and that should be an ongoing one
[2:31pm] OpenPotion: I'm getting SEO guys and customers requesting wordpress... and I have to sell them on joomla
[2:31pm] elinw: jsop=joomla student opportunity program
[2:31pm] elinw: yes
[2:31pm] OpenPotion: cool
[2:31pm] elinw: I think that the SEO for joomla sites is good as long as you are smart
[2:32pm] elinw: you have to pay attnetion to your links, have disipline about duplicate content
[2:32pm] elinw: have excellent content
[2:32pm] OpenPotion: Yeah all the SEO SEM firms I deal with are in love with WP because of its ability to ping news outlets and such
[2:32pm] elinw: also pay attention because the search engines are always tweaking
[2:32pm] OpenPotion: it gets indexed faster they say.
[2:32pm] elinw: right
[2:33pm] OpenPotion: BTW I wrote this http://www.openpotion.com/website-design-blog/item/77-why-we-choose-joomla-over-drupal-and-wordpress.html
[2:33pm] elinw: well if you use webmaster tools
[2:33pm] elinw:
[2:33pm] OpenPotion: but it is prolly outdated with WP 3
[2:33pm] elinw: 1.6 has some SEO enhancements
[2:33pm] OpenPotion: has SEF changed?
[2:33pm] elinw: like making it easy to put the site title on your page
[2:33pm] OpenPotion: cool
[2:33pm] elinw: that's an option in global config
[2:34pm] elinw: also non ascii urls are optionally supported
[2:34pm] elinw: and ... meta data like language is there
[2:34pm] OpenPotion: cool
[2:34pm] elinw: Google is language and geo sensitive
[2:34pm] jools: http://www.zahipedia.com/2009/06/09/watch-online-geo-tv-live/
[2:35pm] OpenPotion: Wordpresses other claim to fame is the easy admin software installs
[2:35pm] OpenPotion: will the JED be integrated to the admin interface of joomla?
[2:35pm] elinw: the whole jed?
[2:35pm] elinw: or like a search?
[2:36pm] lennin left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[2:36pm] OpenPotion: like search
[2:36pm] elinw: i think it woul be cool for someone to make that module
[2:36pm] OpenPotion: in WP you can login to admin interface... browse extensions
[2:36pm] elinw: yeah
[2:36pm] OpenPotion: see ratings..
[2:36pm] OpenPotion: then 1 click installs
[2:36pm] elinw: yes, so it would be really cool to have that, but we need someone to build it
[2:36pm] OpenPotion: it really helps promote dev's to offer their tools for free
[2:36pm] pallavi_ joined the chat room.
[2:37pm] xyzulu: I don't think that would be hard to do in Joomla, but yes.. who wants to build it?
[2:37pm] elinw: now, maybe some of the commercial devs would like to do that or fund doing it
[2:37pm] elinw: in 1.6 you can update your extensions in 1 click
[2:37pm] elinw: assuming that the developers have set it up
[2:37pm] xyzulu: the underlying joomla installer already basically is ready for this anyway.
[2:37pm] OpenPotion: that's cool
[2:37pm] elinw: yes
[2:37pm] elinw: and we already have install from url
[2:37pm] elinw: which i use all the time
[2:38pm] xyzulu: yes, it's so simple
[2:38pm] OpenPotion: well I think it is a major glaring difference I have noticed
[2:38pm] elinw: so it seems like it would not be hard
[2:38pm] mlipscomb: I know a few companies that are in pre-talks about that specifically
[2:38pm] elinw: yes,
[2:38pm] elinw: well i think there are companies that have products like that but it would be cool for someone to ask for a branch
[2:38pm] elinw: and work on it for core
[2:38pm] OpenPotion: it really would promote development of apps to increase the ease of getting them installed into joomla... then non-nerds colud do it.
[2:39pm] OpenPotion: even esier.
[2:39pm] elinw: yeah
[2:39pm] OpenPotion: easier
[2:39pm] xyzulu: I think so too
[2:39pm] OpenPotion: now joomla has the advantage of more front end editing and many components offer front end submission
[2:39pm] elinw: at least now we have a menu link to the jed in the back
[2:39pm] elinw: yes
[2:40pm] OpenPotion: so that makes things easier for non-nerds
[2:40pm] elinw: and with acl that will be even more common
[2:41pm] Guest25012: Is there any simple way to use Ajax in our components?
[2:41pm] OpenPotion: well I'm putting in my wishlist for a pinglist for newly published articles, and JED joomla admin integration/1 click installs
[2:41pm] OpenPotion:
[2:41pm] OpenPotion: and better admin interface
[2:41pm] xyzulu: I'm not sure that in any way Ajax in components depends on Joomla..
[2:41pm] OpenPotion: I've been following Joomlapraise
[2:41pm] xyzulu: OpenPotion.. have you seen the admin templates available?
[2:41pm] OpenPotion: and think he should be in on the admin interface stuff
[2:42pm] xyzulu: Encourage him to get in on it then
[2:42pm] xyzulu: they are doing really cool stuff
[2:42pm] OpenPotion: I'm an adminpraise subscriber
[2:42pm] OpenPotion: he has cool ideas
[2:43pm] magnoliaweb left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[2:43pm] OpenPotion: Anyhow I've asked enough about WP vs Joomla thanks!
[2:44pm] elinw left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:45pm] OpenPotion: right now it seems WP is better for simpler sites. and Joomla is more robust.... opps lost elinw
[2:46pm] OpenPotion: but I feel if I only really learn one CMS Joomla is the best fit between WP and Drupal
[2:46pm] xyzulu: Sounds like you already know Joomla a fair bit.
[2:46pm] elinw joined the chat room.
[2:46pm] elinw: ha
[2:46pm] OpenPotion: I'm just worried devs will leave to WP... many joomla template companies and devs are now doing WP too.
[2:46pm] elinw: what did i mss?
[2:47pm] OpenPotion: not much
[2:47pm] xyzulu: nothing
[2:47pm] xyzulu: we're lost without you
[2:47pm] OpenPotion: I was rambling...
[2:47pm] elinw: sorry we had a brown out
[2:47pm] OpenPotion: not fun
[2:47pm] elinw: odd
[2:47pm] xyzulu: no one wants to talk about servers, security of the community side of things
[2:47pm] xyzulu: i'm having a lazy chat-day
[2:47pm] elinw: unbelievable
[2:48pm] OpenPotion: well tell us about security updates
[2:48pm] Guest25012: what are the main things I should take care while creating component for 1.6?
[2:48pm] OpenPotion: can those be automated?
[2:48pm] elinw: we don't have a call home
[2:48pm] OpenPotion: by cron
[2:48pm] OpenPotion: ?
[2:48pm] elinw: so there's no way we can push
[2:48pm] xyzulu: I'd use the component Sam wrote..
[2:48pm] elinw: if you use sam's update
[2:48pm] xyzulu: will get link
[2:48pm] elinw: yeah
[2:49pm] elinw: ok and 1.6 development
[2:49pm] xyzulu: http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/core-enhancements/installers/9332
[2:49pm] OpenPotion: how about a big notice at the top like in WP that says (NEW VERSION AVAILABLE)
[2:49pm] jools: Title: Update Manager for Joomla! - Joomla! Extensions Directory (at extensions.joomla.org)
[2:49pm] OpenPotion: click here to auto update
[2:49pm] xyzulu: We do have a security feed in the admin that you can setup
[2:49pm] OpenPotion: ..checking link
[2:49pm] elinw: i tyeah that would require some privacy things though, and we worry that people won't want that
[2:49pm] elinw: yes
[2:49pm] elinw: that's why we don't really know how many installs there are
[2:49pm] elinw: with WP one ifference is
[2:50pm] xyzulu: but, yeah.. it's not quite WP style, but almost as easy.
[2:50pm] elinw: something like 75% of their sites are on wordpress.com
[2:50pm] xyzulu: 3 clicks with that component
[2:50pm] elinw: so easy peasy
[2:50pm] elinw: yeah
[2:50pm] elinw: it's great
[2:50pm] elinw: Brad made me update sites the other day
[2:50pm] elinw: because that's what i do
[2:50pm] elinw: and it was just minutes
[2:51pm] OpenPotion: I'll have to try that tool... his site is a bit confusing
[2:51pm] elinw: That whole issue is really challenging
[2:51pm] xyzulu: if you use a host that runs suphp (if they don't find a new one) you barely have to understand any lower level functions in Joomla.. to update and admin
[2:51pm] elinw: because there are environment issues too
[2:51pm] elinw: you nee curl
[2:52pm] elinw: yeah
[2:52pm] Guest25012 left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[2:52pm] AndrewEddie left the chat room.
[2:52pm] OpenPotion: I use hostgator
[2:52pm] xyzulu: I'm keep my mouth closed COI
[2:52pm] elinw: shhhh
[2:52pm] elinw: you need to see what they have
[2:52pm] OpenPotion: hehehe
[2:53pm] elinw: so 1.6 extensions
[2:53pm] OpenPotion: I have a resseller account and their support is fantastic...
[2:53pm] OpenPotion: but maybe there are better ones out there
[2:53pm] elinw: let's not talk hosting except general principles
[2:53pm] OpenPotion: k
[2:53pm] OpenPotion: I'll see if I can figure that out...
[2:54pm] elinw: so what was the question about extensions?
[2:54pm] elinw: I'd say if you are starting a new extension in 1.6 , really make sure to follow the joomla design patterns
[2:55pm] elinw: Think about how it will work with ACL
[2:55pm] elinw: If you haven't looked at JForm you have to
[2:55pm] elinw: because it's amazingly useful
[2:56pm] elinw: and look at the categories too, make sure you work with com_categories the right way
[2:57pm] elinw: there are some things in there ... if you look at the core extensions you will see that there are a lot of elements that other extensions can use so there is a consistent user interface
[2:57pm] elinw: like the grids, and the toolbars
[2:57pm] elinw: Even the language strings forthe tool bars, which are mainly in en_GB so you have the same exact words for the same buttons
[2:58pm] elinw: which is good for users and makes it seamless
[2:58pm] elinw: So even more than in 1.5 I woul leverage the framework and the core patterns
[2:59pm] elinw: it's definitely worth code browsing if you haven't done it yet
[3:00pm] xyzulu: well time to say goodbye... Elin is waaay past her bedtime
[3:00pm] elinw: heh
[3:00pm] elinw: thanks everyone
[3:00pm] mlipscomb left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[3:02pm] OpenPotion: wow thanks team
[3:02pm] OpenPotion: this was great... glad I was looking at twitter