Tue 23 Dec 2008 |
Protecting the Joomla! Trademark in JED
Written by Toni Marie
Protecting the Joomla! Trademark in JED
We love when people talk about Joomla, build business around Joomla, and produce products that make life better for Joomla users and developers. At the JED we especially love it when people build extensions for Joomla.
As most of you probably already know, Joomla! and the Joomla! logo are trademarked. We in the JED have worked for quite a long time together with Open Source Matters (OSM) to provide information about this and to prevent violations of the Joomla trademark and logo for newly submitted extensions that have been placed in or linked from the JED.
Why is the Joomla! Name Trademarked?
The reason we work to protect the Joomla trademark is that we have a direct interest in maintaining the integrity of the Joomla brand. We want to ensure that everyone in our community has equal possibilities to use it in a fair way, and we want to prevent it from being used in a ways that create confusion and hurt the project and our community.
What Has Been the Situation Until Now?
We have been working together with the 3rd party developers for a quite long time to help them to comply with OSM's trademark and logo policy. This has in most cases been a very smooth process. Our focus has mainly been on new extensions.
What Change Are We Making?
Now also are going to look at all extensions names and domains and that we are going make sure that everyone who are using the Joomla name as a part of their identity, service or product has permission. We plan to have all of these cleared up by 30 June 2009.
How Do I Get Permission?
If you want to use the term Joomla as a part of domain, service, business or product names, you need permission (a license) to use it. The permission process is simple and quite straightforward. All you need to do is fill a form. We JED editors can help our 3rd party developers to immediately get a such license approved if the terms are fulfilled and there are no other issues. The same holds whether the use is Joomla or an abbreviation derived from Joomla because both can weaken the Joomla trademark.
How Do I Get Started?
If you are a third party developer you can help with this by getting started on your own. Here are the links you need.
- General information about licensing and trademark - http://www.opensourcematters.org/licensing.html
- Extension name request form http://opensourcematters.org/extension-name-request.html
- Information on conditional use logos http://www.joomla.org/about-joomla/the-project/conditional-use-logos.html
- Name and logo use (requesting permission forms for business names and other name uses and use of the logo) http://www.opensourcematters.org/name-and-logo-use.html
Please note that OSM will only license the use of the Joomla! name or variations to 3rd party extensions that use the GNU GPL license, which means they are in compliance with the Joomla! license and they are part of the GNU GPL software community. Extensions that do not use the Joomla! name may continue to comply with the Joomla! license by using any GNU GPL compatible license.
If you have any questions about licensing, then you can contact OSM with the following email address
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
or the JED editors
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Frequently Asked Questions
Why do we need to ask for permission to use the Joomla name as a part of website, service or product?
Trademark law says that we need to control and enforce the use of a trademark. Failing to do so could mean that we lose the trademark.
I'm providing extensions that aren't GPL. Is there a way to get a permission to use the Joomla! name?
No. You need either to change your license so you comply with Joomla's license or stop using the Joomla name. We are aware that it take time and can be an effort to change names, so we are going to give sufficient time to change if you are already listed in JED.
Are there any restrictions how I can name an extension?
Yes, we won't accept any extension names that starts with “Joomla” like “Joomlashop” or any names that can create confusion with already existing names.
I want to build up my own trademark. Is there a way I can trademark protect a Joomla name or a variation of it.
I see that you also ask that abbreviation derived from Joomla need to be licensed. Why?
I have written a text in an article about Joomla or am doing a presentation about Joomla. Do I need to license a such use?
No, that is called fair use and such use doesn't need to be licensed. It is when you use the name together with the website, the domain, service or product you need the name use licensed.
Why is it so important to keep Joomla trademarked? Wouldn't it be better to let everyone use it without any restrictions?
We believe that everyone in our community should have the same equal possibilities to use the name now and in the future. We want to prevent others from trademarking Joomla! and restricting use. We also want to prevent use in a such way that would harm our project and community. For example, we want to keep people from distributing unofficial and confusing versions of Joomla under the Joomla name or using the name to spread harmful products. The Joomla community has put a lot of effort into building good will and a positive reputation for the Joomla brand, and trademarking protects that.
2008-12-24 00:35:01
You realize that you will be turning away numerous EXCEPTIONAL extensions because of your licensing situation with the GNU GPL. Some of your best extensions are just that because people have the money and time to develop them since they are commercially licensed. OS is not bad, but when you have a group of people working on something, eventually, the group may dissipate in time. People just find other things to do. Look at Mambo!
I hope that those developers willing to put out products for Joomla! as GNU GPL'd continue to do so or you are going to see far fewer extensions coming onto your extension directory.
Take my word that those commercial developers will migrate to something else that isn't so restrictive and our Joomla! community will slowly die and wither on the vine. I hope I'm wrong, but the writing is on the wall already.
2008-12-24 01:21:06
This statement is strictly related to the use of the word Joomla or abbreviations in the extension name. This is about trademarks, not license. License compatibility is only one of the requirements for this trademark form.
And to answer your question about 3rd party developers, I realize it's difficult to adjust naming after it has been in place, but I don't think that change should be enough to merit abandonment of a product.
2008-12-24 01:38:46
I hope you take my opinions into consideration, and realize that I am not the only one who feels this way.
2008-12-24 02:12:04
Actually we found the way that Linus has set up for handling the use of the Linux mark inspiring and we have based a lot of our processes on it. http://linuxmark.org/
As I've explained before, the trademark is what lets us allow the community to use the name and logo. If we didn't enforce the mark then the community would lose it to private interests. There are already a number of private companies around the world seeking to take the Joomla! name for their own private gain. If that happens none of us will be able to use the marks in those countries. I don't think that is what anyone (except those private companies) wants.
Just as copyright+GPL license makes software free, maintaining the trademark makes it possible for the community to use the mark and benefit from the strength of the brand that the community has built.
2008-12-24 03:41:31
I understand the importance of not letting corporations capitalize at the expense of the Joomla! community, however there has to be some way to make the licensing less restrictive. It weighs Joomla! down and makes it feel more like Proprietary software than Free/Open Source Software. Don't get me wrong, Joomla! is nowhere near Proprietary, but it seems to me that this just adds more hurdles that the community must try to avoid, hurdles that are usually only found in Proprietary Software.
The Joomla! trademark use policy is somewhat of a problem. I, and I assume many others, would not have a problem with this if the logo was under a Free license. There must be some way to put the logo under a Free license, like CC by-sa, or even the GPL. Drupal's logo is under the GPL, so it can't be too hard to do. With the trademark guarded like a firstborn child, it is a lot harder to justify putting the logo under a non-free license.
2008-12-24 06:05:36
Trademark and copyright are two different things. CC is something you can use for copyrighted works not for a trademark or brand. If you look at most other open source projects you will see that they have policies similar to or stricter than ours.
Most successful open source projects go through this same discussion, and it's great that we are having it now. On the whole we have an extremely generous use policy, as generous as we can make it without losing the trademark.
About the brand manual, I think we're thinking about doing some work on it and if you have thoughts they would be welcome.
Some references:
http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
http://groups.drupal.org/node/15023 (note especially the discussion of creation of a logo that is not the drupalicon)
http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/policy.html
2008-12-24 10:53:57
We have just gone through the process of trademarking our own brand (unrelated to programming / web, it's sports & entertainment), you are going to have a lot of fun trying to enforce abbreviations that are incorporated in to an extension name. You will have no issue if it is purely an abbreviation, yet it if forms part of the extension name go buy yourself a lotto ticket before you try and enforce it. You have just opened a can of worms with that one
I agree with what you are trying to achieve and protect Joomla, but there are some things you should not comment on without the full understanding of the scope of what you're claiming.
Regards,
.Joel
2008-12-24 13:35:06
Would it be possible to release the Joomla! logo under a Free/Open license, or is that impossible due to this trademark policy? Many other projects seem to have Free logos despite trademark-protected names, and Free/Open Art is an often overlooked part of Free/Open Source software.
2008-12-24 16:17:28
The text is blurry and bolded for a font size that makes them difficult to read.
The "Business * Support" logo for example is barely legible due to blurring.
If we must use the logos then please make them presentable first.
2008-12-24 19:38:05
I'm not even close to an expert on trademarks, copyrights, etc., but I don't see how you could possibly enforce that people don't use J!, Jom, or Joo. Joom is iffy, but I can see how you might have a claim there. Was this provision based on sound legal advice? I'm not trying to be snarky. I just truly don't understand how you can possibly enforce that.
2008-12-24 19:49:51
2008-12-24 19:54:07
2008-12-24 20:22:12
2008-12-24 21:19:24
No, that would defeat the purpose of having a consistent logo representing the project and that people can trust to be from the project. However, maybe like Drupal we can look into having a mascot that is free to use and modify and that everyone would know is not connected with the project. I think that's an interesting idea.
@Cory and others
I don't know how much reading you've done on this, but we've spent a year and a half doing research and talking to experts, and you might be very surprised what can be considered "causing confusion." And if we allow confusion, we lose the mark. It's no different than Apple saying you can't call your desktop computer a Mac or your mp3 player a jPod.
@Daniel, I don't think the logos are blurry--perhaps you are using IE? Because it has issues with fonts being blurry. I will take a look though.
2008-12-24 23:34:05
Elin - You said:
I think those are bad examples. Mac is a trademark of Apple. It's not a derivative. It's an actual trademark. jPod is clearly a knock-off name of iPod.
I would argue that no one would see the word "Jom" as being connected with the Joomla! project if it weren't for the highly popular JomComment extension from Azrul. They have two or three years of brand development behind the name JomComment, and I'd be willing to bet you'd have a hard time convincing them (or a court, for that matter) that you have a right to prevent them from using that name. Of course, you are well within your rights to remove them from the JED, but I think you would get a huge backlash for that because this extension in particular is very popular.
My only point is that some of the derivatives mentioned seem like a stretch in terms of trying to enforce trademark infringement. It should be interesting to see how all of this plays out for certain companies.
Merry Christmas!
2008-12-25 02:17:44
Right, we don't want to license anyone who wants to make joomcakes. But if you are making an extension to Joomla and you are using Joom it is pretty obvious that it is derivative. And that's the issue. So what our lawyers have told us is that we need to look at each one case by case. And if someone tried to register a trademark one of those names we would have to oppose it, because if we didn't it would weaken our mark.
As a project we are very willing to license most variations of the names and to license most domain names. But we do indeed need to license them. We've made it easy, and we certainly hope that members of the community are supportive enough of the project that they will prefer to fill in a simple form to getting into an extended argument about it.
Professionally, my advice to people is to chose a trademarkable name for their extensions and companies. If you look at the top components for Joomla it's interesting to see that they don't really use the name. For example just off the top of my head I can thing of Community Builder, DocMan, VirtueMart, Expose Flash Gallery ... they don't use the Joomla mark and are hugely successful. And by using their own names they can create a distinct brand which gives them lots of flexibility. So, especially if you want to work in the joomlasphere professionally I would encourage you to create a brand that you can build on in the future. If you just want to share what you have built, fill in the form and by all means use the name. But that's just my advice from observing the commercial environment for a couple of years.
Happy holidays to all.
2008-12-25 04:40:51
However, before posting my original comment I checked in 4 different browsers, FF, Opera, Chrome, and Safari. Then After it checked in both ie6 and 7 and even on my iphone. The images all look the same, and the Business one has brown blurring over the letters of the word business. I confirmed it with several other people who all see it too.
Please clear your cache in case you have a different image to what we are all seeing and try again.
Also the 3 extension related tags look like someone made them in MS Paint. The original ones on the JED looked a lot better, but they have been remade here to put the TM on them and the round end. But in the process font smoothing was turned on and because the font is small it looks dirty and unprofessional.
Can we use a modified original JED one if we put the round bit and a TM on? Or even better can we use one of the new JED ones? It doesn't make sense to give the old discontinued logos to use anyway as there is no continuity between them and the JED so people seeing them on our site won't recognize them if they haven't seen the old JED, removing a lot of their usefullness.
I am happy to use these logos on my products -if- they look respectable and professional. I am happy to to even do the work of cleaning them up if you want. If you made them look nicer it would much easier to convince people to use them.
What about a "Made for Joomla" Icon that is a bit clearer what exactly is going on?
Could we also get, in the "Joomla! Related Businesses" section an "Extensions Developer" and "Templates Developer" badge? Or should those businesses both use "Solutions Developer"?
2008-12-25 05:17:27
Sorry. A non-recoverable error has occurred.
Could not find valid Key
2008-12-25 15:07:32
Can you try again please? I changed the redirect slightly.
Yes you can use the old extension ones for now.
2008-12-25 20:02:15
Please clarify what happens with existing businesses using a joomla derivative name.
And let us know when/if the form is operational.
Thanks.
2008-12-25 21:46:16
Any thoughts on my request for extension and template developer badges?
2008-12-26 02:45:12
Actually, I started a thread in the OSM forum for people to make requests. We're not going to have hundreds of variations, but I do agree with your suggestions.
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=381&t=355971
Are you registering as a user when submitting? If you have multiple extensions, logos, domains etc. I would recommend doing that as you will eventually be able to self manage some parts.
2008-12-26 06:31:36
2008-12-26 07:23:23
Ok if you register a user then the forms work.
Perhaps you should make that top box bolder or red or something, as I looked at that form 5 or 6 times and didn't notice it until you said to register a user and I wondered what you were talking about.
I can't seem to find the 'login' though for that user. The link provided goes tot eh OSM homepage, which has no login box or link which I can see.
Sorry to fill the comments with so much tech talk...
But at least the forms work now!
2008-12-26 15:39:54
Regarding this message, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. However, I don't think you really covered the point I was making. I agree with you that Joom is pretty clearly a derivative of Joomla. You'll get no argument here on that one.
My question was specifically about Jom, Joo, and J!. Frankly, I don't see how those are even remotely close to infringing on the Joomla trademark.
Also, for what it's worth, I agree with you that extensions should build a brand/name independent of the Joomla name so that they can be trademarked.
2008-12-26 16:04:56
2008-12-26 16:34:18
Let me also add that I have no desire to create any extension with Jom, Joo, J!, Joom, Joomla, or any other derivative of the name, so I have no dog in this fight, so to speak. I completely support the decision to protect the Joomla! trademark.
I have no other desire but to be a cooperative member of the community. I am just bringing up a point, as a community member, that I think it's a waste of effort to even be concerned with Jom, Joo, or J! because they don't even seem worth worrying about, IMHO.
2008-12-26 17:19:11
Great. I also recreated the form so it should work now even if you don't create an account (but the problem seems to come up inconsistently so it's hard to know for sure).
@Cory
No worries, we know you aren't being argumentative, just mulling over the same questions we all have. We're going to continue to follow the advice of our trademark lawyers, but please know that we have asked them the exact same questions you are asking.
2008-12-29 02:28:24
2008-12-29 10:19:07
2008-12-30 05:22:06
Error :
Sorry. A non-recoverable error has occurred.
Could not find valid Key
Return to home page.
2008-12-30 12:03:18
The form is STILL not working...
2008-12-31 00:16:29
See...
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?p=20966
2008-12-31 00:18:39
LOL...as a JomComment and JomSocial user I think you have an exceptionally valid point!
2009-01-03 10:43:02
You really have to read the small print to understand that if you got any commercial extensions on your site 'Joomla' or any diravations (which?!) are not allowed.
2009-01-10 01:04:07
But isn't it likely that using that prefix could be taken as derogatory to people of the Jewish faith?
2009-01-16 04:19:22
This is ridiculous. I have a domain, www.joomlahackers.net ,but that doesnt mean,im a hacker lol.
rather i solve ppl's hacked and affected sites.
I run a Tutorial based site with this domain also advetise some services from my company,which has a different name, QubeSys
I have a extension there at JED,named Dynamic VM Interface ,a it doesnt even call J or Jo or Ja or Joom or Joomla!!
Then,why is it necessary to fill the form and bla bla bla?
If necessary,then im going to do it for sure,but its just not done. rather ppl will step backwards while using the name..
Anyways..
2009-02-03 03:06:01
2009-02-25 01:04:28
We would be happy to give you a license. However, we have as policy to
not give any license to developers that have non-GPL extensions.
why is it that some templates club have received a license and some cant get it ?
No names here but one of the providers clearly states Joomla! name is used under a limited license from Open Source Matters.
2009-05-12 22:54:48
2009-07-21 03:19:26
is not working!
BTW I don't see what the big deal is that everyone is making about how Joomla is going cat-and-dog (whatever that means) and so on and so forth, by enforcing its trademark rights and trying to get a grip on who is using it and for what purposes.
Having looked at one of the forms, I am glad to see the kind of information required, which should help increase the level of quality and trust of extensions, sites, and services using the Joomla name. This is a protection that will benefit the whole community, both users and developers. I think that's obvious, and the cranks and misanthropes that tend to gather on the Web never cease to amaze me.