A new Joomla! Translation and Localisation Policy

15 Comments

1. simbus82 makes this comment

   2008-12-04 09:46:54

   Great thing!!! i think that give some rules to a so big project is the right way for the success!

2. AlexRed makes this comment

   2008-12-04 09:48:38

   Ciao JM,
   good work
   P.S.: Here I can't find the pdf file.

3. ibnhafsun makes this comment

   2008-12-04 16:20:24

   Great to see you back and thanks for the update, Jean Marie!

4. Elin makes this comment

   2008-12-04 19:27:56

   Fantastic work, thanks for your dedication to getting this done to you and the whole team.

5. brad makes this comment

   2008-12-04 20:35:24

   Great work on this.. your guys really demonstrated what contributing is all about.
   
   Keep up the good work.

6. Arno Zijlstra makes this comment

   2008-12-04 21:11:05

   Great work all.
   
   Just a question, can anyone who wants to do translations join in?
   
   Community team efforts like this is just what the project needs.
   
   Anyone can and should try to contribute, it even helps doing little things because many of those can make a big difference for the project.

7. amy.stephen makes this comment

   2008-12-04 21:29:06

   Good work! Setting the groundwork for more and more translations will prove to be so very important for the project.
   
   I also want to encourage broad participation. In the past, I know it has been a challenge for some to join in and I think we must make room for everyone who is willing to abide by the rules and wants to participate.
   
   Even with our GPL'ed extensions, we might have several choices that essentially do the same type of thing. It could arguably be "better" in many cases if people joined efforts. Mainly, though, creating an environment where all are empowered to participate results in better work. We learn from one another. I think that is a good model.
   
   I really do appreciate the work that this team has done and congratulate you on these important deliverables!

8. infograf768 makes this comment

   2008-12-06 08:27:14

   @Arno
   
   We will do our best to implement point 3 of the policy:
   
   3. Within specific languages, a spirit of collaboration shall be maintained. If there is already a Joomla Translation Team for a given language, new contributors and teams should seek to cooperate with that team. Existing Joomla Translation Teams must welcome and encourage new contributors.
   
   As all know, we had to compromise to get as many up-to-date languages as possible. Using a central collaborative tool based on individual volunteers would have diluted responsibilities and make things much harder to get and quality control in due time.

9. amy.stephen makes this comment

   2008-12-06 22:41:46

   JM -
   
   That is excellent. When we allow everyone to join and encourage cooperation, that is a good thing, indeed.
   
   I have one more question about the community Web sites. Will all contributing members have the opportunity to list their site and display the translation partner badge?
   
   Being able to communicate such a resource is available is very helpful to community building.
   
   Thanks for your kind response and patience. This is very important and challenging, I realize.
   Amy

10. jean-marie.simonet makes this comment

    2008-12-15 06:44:26

    @Amy
    
    All teams sites (not individual members of each team) will be able to display badge and shall be listed, as long as they collaborate effectively, on http://community.joomla.org/translations.html.
    
    The nature of the Team, i.e. individual translator, team without site/community, team/community with site –for a said language— shall be displayed and direct contacts provided. This will be kept up-to-date as we have the experience of some teams starting as individuals and then gathering other people and making a new site/community.
    
    What is to note is that we will only provide one language pack per language and keep only one help-online dump per language on Joomlacode common repository.
    http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/jtranslation/
    
    The important aspect here is that getting the badge has been in the past the only goal for some. We want to avoid this and concentrate only on getting available language resources for Joomla! users at the same time as recognizing the efforts of the Translators.
    
    This does not prevent the basic right in the Open Source world to provide elsewhere other versions of packs and help dumps, including specific projects on joomlacode.
    Any individual/team/site/for-profit organisation that does not want to collaborate with existing ones can do that, without badge and specific listing on joomla.org sites. They still have to comply to all license rules obviously.

11. amy.stephen makes this comment

    2008-12-15 13:08:31

    JM -
    
    Thank you for the respectful response.
    
    I am concerned about such an approach because the net result of assigning a territory to someone (i.e., with a single Web site under one person's domain and the only official badge for a language) is that doing so very likely discourages the involvement of others. While it is good that the policy calls for cooperation, unfortunately, I think many will be discouraged from even joining in when "the perceived prize" has already been awarded.
    
    Karl Fogel's Producing Open Source Software has a short section Prevent Territoriality < http://producingoss.com/en/managing-volunteers.html#territoriality > that might be worth a read. In it, he says this about splitting up the source code and assigning domain to individuals:
    
    "A software project's source code files are the core of its identity. They should reflect the fact that the developer community as a whole is responsible for them, and not be divided up into little fiefdoms."
    
    An alternative approach could be to locate the language files in the SVN (like our source code) and implement a process where people could submit patches or commit contributions towards the body of work. The Translators Team could manage this work flow, in the same way that the Bug Squad does, ensuring only quality changes are accepted. Then, I think we might be a good step closer to a welcoming community approach.
    
    Recognizing the work people do and their contributions is very important. I am guessing that is the goal behind the badges and Web site listings. The Bug Squad mentions the names of those who contributed during development of the last version on the official release notes. Perhaps it would make sense to do the same of those who actively contributed towards translations.
    
    Thanks for all you and the others have done to provide this policy. Thank you for openly allowing a community discussion of the concepts.
    
    Amy

12. Kenneth Crowder makes this comment

    2008-12-15 14:18:11

    This is a great step forward for the Joomla! project. Great work everyone!

13. Jean Marie Simonet makes this comment

    2008-12-15 19:34:19

    @Amy
    
    This has been debated at length and the present policy is the conclusion of this debate.
    In an ideal world your proposal makes sense.
    We just have to be pragmatic here and take into account a series of factors that make Joomla Translation Matters a very different issue than bugsquad or dev matters generally speaking.
    
    As I wrote below:
    "As all know, we had to compromise to get as many up-to-date languages as possible. Using a central collaborative tool based on individual volunteers would have diluted responsibilities and make things much harder to get and quality control in due time."
    
    This was an understatement.
    
    We are now working hard to get everything going fine again and let Joomla user access as many languages a possible, updated with Joomla! releases, as all expect.
    
    Thanks for your concern.

14. amy.stephen makes this comment

    2008-12-15 21:04:08

    JM -
    
    Thanks again. I am not aware of these debates as I am not a member of the core team or translations working group, so I do appreciate you allowing this discussion.
    
    Make no mistake, I do not have concern as much as I have a deep respect for this work and strong hope that we can make it easier for others to participate. As it turns out, that's not always easy to do - in any of our working groups. We all have lots to learn and I think we are improving.
    
    Thanks to the Translations Working Group for bringing Joomla! out to others, all around the world.

15. lida makes this comment

    2009-07-25 03:43:38

    that is really good for our users. cool.